Lagoon 620 - Unsafe at any speed? Or just silly?

Pls be careful once You are in Thailand. Such statement can fall into defamation case and here it is criminal offense; local Lagoon dealer can make the case happen

Actually, interior handrails are not currently covered by certification, for pleasure craft. But talking about safety, how many boats are designed by 'stylists'; there is no safe access to mooring cleats or anchor, no visibility, etc. Look at Gallery on this website for samples.

 

Its unfortunate. Style driven Naval Architecture.

This was the warning given by the investigative authorities, concerning the sinking of the Mega Yacht YOGI.

I wonder how many NAs are prepared to say NO !!! to a client who is ready to spend 50 million on his fantasy toy

 

This is a matter of pride in profession. Many yacht designs now start without involvement of a naval architect, and NA is only asked to push the keys on calculator at later stages. This results completely wrong concepts in customer brain where NA can do nothing. We at AMD do not take any work after yacht stylists or 'designers', and do not participate the projects where we were not involved from the first sketch. This is a policy; if all colleagues follow the same philosophy the problem of producing 'glamour toys for marina' will not happen.

 

There is a 50 meter modern ketch in the harbour now. Enormous beast.

The owner is having a 100 meter sloop drawn ?

Would you take on the job ?

Do you think it is possible to design a one hundred meter sloop ? or is this just another style driven object ?

 

Give all pros and cons to the owner before involving in such project. One of the duties of NA (as any engineering specialist) is to provide objective information. There is no such duty from 'designers' - picture makers.

And then, if the project can be technically done and the customer wants to go ahead, and NA has enough confidence/experience/knowledge to make it, to why no take the challenge?

 

Uncharted waters...your reputation is at risk.

You may be able to theoretically calculate loads, then solve the loads with equipment that allows unknown humans to operate it safely, but this will require teams of engineers and many many subcontractors..all working on the unknown

The results of failure could be catastrophic.

I view it as Style Driven.....my boat is the biggest, my boat has more swimming pools, my boat has a beach, my boat has its own post code.......

 

"I want a cat with 16 outboard engines and swimming pool on flybridge..."

 

When I worked for 3 months on a 118ft gaff rigged schooner, everytime we came back in, someone had to climb up onto the booms and flake the sails as they came down. We referred to this position as "cowboy" and since Im from Texas, for some reason this duty was passed to me.

To get onto the boom of the foremast, I had to climb the backside of the mainmast and grab the topping lift of the foreboom and pull myself up. Keep in mind, these booms were about 10-12ft off the deck and about 25?ft long. the key to effective cowboy is to sit your butt DOWN.

so you sit down and grab the leach and pull BACK hard and force the first fold. You can make about 5 more fold before you must scoot forward while SITTING DOWN. I could flake foremain and main within 5 minutes doing this and I never fell once. I came close climing up and getting situated when one of the lazy jacks let go

I agree, these modern designs are choosing style over safety but I don't agree with suing the pants off of everywhere cause someone got hurt. This is probably why I prefer living in offbeat non first world countries. You fall in a hole on the sidewalk? Your fault. Keep your eyes open. Now if your blind.... :?: Lawyers and lawsuits make the cost living higher for the whole world. everything within reason... my .02

 

I seen Lagoons all the time. They look like well built production boats. I wouldnt consider the boat " Unsafe"

I would consider the boat difficult to operate and unsuitable for the type of sailing and geographic range I cover.

This holds true for all lightweight, high freeboard, poorly detailed yachts

No need for lawyers.

 

If we are all being brutally honest, most well furnished and professionally decorated yachts are positioned for the sea conditions in which they will spend 99% of their useful life - tied up to a dock.

Designing these boats for the 1% of the time they will actually be out of cell tower distance from shore would compromise the accommodations and aesthetic impact tremendously. Given that 50% of the time they are in use will probably be under motor, what owner will actually even realize there are issues with the boat?

--
CutOnce

 

You are correct.

 

Lagoon is a manufacturer of a product. Ralph Nader pointed out car company failures.

Ralph Nader in his book Unsafe At Any Speed demonstrated that the car companies were spending $700 per car on styling changes and frills. While they were neglecting basic safety issues.

I realize I titled my posting incorrectly. Instead of asking if the Lagoon 620 was Unsafe at any speed? I should have asked if it was unsafe at rest tied to the dock with no waves.

The answer is the woman who was whisked off to the hospital and the photograph of a staircase with no railings.

Regarding me being potentially sued by a Thailand Lagoon dealer? Is this the same dealer that provided the Lagoon 500 that sank in Thailand a few years back. In that case a seasoned captain forgot not to use a floating rope on the dinghy. It wrapped around the prop, when he started the engine, it wrenched on the shaft, and flooded the engine room.

You cannot be sued if you point out real facts. Again I happen to be a fan of Lagoon. Companies need feed back on their product so they can make them better. The community should document the good and the bad about sail boats. That is how we learn.

Am I perfect. Is my boat perfect. Of course not. However, I am reviewing everything from top to bottom all the time. That is my job. I am responsible for the well being of many crew members when I go to sea. I even consider it my duty to make sure they know what troubles are ashore.

 

Ripped up traveler track and sloped surface

I noticed the Lagoon 620 back at the marina and something caught my eye. Notice in the photo from the brochure the circle I placed there. This is where the traveler car runs on a track. It appears this Lagoon 620 has ripped the track out of roof below.

Now I ask you. Didn't Lagoon designers know that type of loads the boom would pull with against this track? Obviously something went wrong here.

That roof by the way is sloped towards stern. Now that is the surface you get to stand on if you need to untangle the lines coming down from the end of the boom.

I bet this owner will put in some sort of insurance claim. Oh well, another reason why insurance is going through the roof for multi-hulls.

Eliminating a traveler track all together is one of the reasons I wish to get rid of booms on cruising boats. If this boat had a simple single mast in the back with a foresail, these problems would not exist.

 

You never know. I can perform an uncontrolled Jibe and tear the traveler off, break the boom vang, exlpode the mainsheet block...

Operator error is the cause of most failures.

 

I don't think the traveler has been lifted you're just looking at the traveler car. The way travelers can slop around in rough conditions with little wind is a bit disconcerting though I agree. On the way back from South Australia in a Chris White Atlantic 46 catamaran we mulled over putting on a preventer line to stop the crashing and banging but left it alone in the end I even managed to sleep when I was right next to it lying on the berth in the pilot house, amazing what you get used to!