Kurt Hughes 27ft foiling Tri

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by coralislander, Apr 29, 2015.

  1. coralislander
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    coralislander coralislander

    Do you have the final draft / plans and has the boat been constructed.

    If so how does it perform - to windward - when reaching - running D / wind during various wind strengths and sea conditions.

    Any chance you can post some photos.

    Thanks. :?:
     
  2. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Funny you should mention it I had a chat to Simmo from Silentbay charter the other day and he decided that they wouldn't go ahead with the project.

    They decided it was too costly to build given the current economic situation in Italy and their current KHSD 24' trimaran "Muffalo" is still proving to be excellent for charter work and at the club racing events in which they are competing.
     
  3. coralislander
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    coralislander coralislander

    Did he buy the full set build plans. Kurt says a full build set was sold.
     
  4. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Simmo only took the plans to concept stage but there is every possibility a set of plans were sold to someone else.
     
  5. coralislander
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    coralislander coralislander

    Corley.

    Did he state the cost to take it to the concept stage.

    The ocean foiling 40 tri is at the same stage so no study plans.

    Do you know what the position would have been if Simmo had, taken it to full design plans at full design charges.

    Does that mean that Kurt can charge others for full study plans and numerous full design sets at full rates.

    I note the aussie cat designer for a custom design for a same design he has designed for a client, that he states he can not sell the plans and refers enquiries to the client. That particular SA client states a charge for the plans and that they must do the build.

    BERMUDA 77 Cat.

    OC
     
  6. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Kurt is very reasonable to concept stage he mentioned about 1k US when I enquired re: a 50' racing trimaran to be built to Multi50 rules. I'm not sure what he charged Simmo but similar ballpark as a guess? Most of the work I suppose is in creating the internal and external 3D model which can then be rendered from different perspectives. I'm not sure about his business model or plan exclusivity arrangements you would have to ask him those questions directly.

    When I enquired with Tony Grainger he wanted big dollars for a basic concept I was a bit shocked to be honest because what was requested was pretty close to existing designs like the TR40 trimaran Yana.
     
  7. coralislander
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    coralislander coralislander

    Thanks.

    Interesting. 1K does that mean $1000 or $100,000

    If $100,000 I'm guessing you where requiring foiling assist which - I'm guessing again he does not have the design data to work with and would have to sub contract to a foiling specialist designer or go with a partnership design which means his fee and the partners specialist designers fee.

    I read re ETNZ their first 72 footer that special chips where placed through the entire structures which recorded all the stress factors / loads experienced under controlled stages to obtain the information. They then sold the first design to Lunna rossa for them to develop to their second vessel with there own input.

    The same is what is happening with Gitana and Edmond de Rothschild.

    Not Sharing or the price is considerable at present for such information?
     
  8. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    That's $1000 USD for the concept not $100,000 a bargain in my view.
     
  9. coralislander
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    coralislander coralislander

    Not exactly a bargain? But if you say so possibly. However how long does it take to juggle various existing 3d and CAD Models to produce a concept visual. At $ 300 per hour means 3 hrs. Surely it would not take that long as they are not to scale, They are basic visual impressions. But thanks for the clarification re dollar value.

    I read some where Kurt users his existing computer existing 3D and cad models from existing designs piece meal to create all designs claiming that gives him the majority ownership title, which I disagree with. This I'm guessing why some concepts the clients have decided to go direct to specialist designers that have already designed similar designs the clients are looking for. The concept designs that have not progressed do not have the interior 3D CADS.

    A complete new design from scratch the fees are close to $100,000 plus for larger racing designs which KURT does not have especially if they are to have structural analysis, loads, wind tunnel, tank testing evaluations. He claims new designs don't need tank testing with new computer designer tools. If that's correct why are certain specialists still recommending and charging for tank testing for wave behaviour, comfort [ pitching and speed ] analysis and aero dynamics testing for new designs.

    I have no idea what the arrangement is with the French company that Gitana and Edmond de Rothschild have engaged if a client approaches them for a design to incorporate the data that they have gained. Their preamble boast about the previous designs they have had design experience with, like other designers do but what that exactly means is any persons guess regarding what some are claiming on forums as the trickle along effect from these newly obtained proto type vessels and the final design build which invariably also have modifications from the extra data gained.
    A charge I supposed must be charged but how and what amount is questionable and who owns the data as those designers design fees are considerably higher claiming they have the experience and know how, which could be interpreted that their standard design fees already include such gained data costs which has been paid / charge / to the original client.

    :?:
     
  10. Marmoset
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    Marmoset Senior Member

    I know I see all the time kayaks and stich glue Dory plans all over for 300 dollar range, and not from naval designers. Personally I wouldn't have thought you could get a 50 foot tri from a guy like Kurt Hughes. And forgetting what a guy does or sells you, in this world of litigation, 1000 dollars for something and he's gonna stand behind it? Dead cheap to me at least.


    Barry
     
  11. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    It's the experience of the designer that you are paying for. Anyone with CAD experience can put together some pretty renders but being able to have concept at least come close to reality that's what the fee covers.
     
  12. jamez
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    jamez Senior Member

    Coralislander, what sort of boat do you want? Gunna build it yourself or have it made?
     
  13. coralislander
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    coralislander coralislander

    Professionally built for 3 mode sailing conditions oceangoing.
     
  14. coralislander
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    coralislander coralislander

    Corley.

    If you don't like the stock designs on the designers drawing boards that they have for many reasons, which their are plenty - ugly - that dictate non resalable value and give him the ideas, concepts that will be a trend setter, with sort after photo appeal, incorporate comfort, speed, visibility with a flexible interior design and I sure would maintain it's resale value, with the latest technology plus it is highly successful. All that which he does not have the creativity to custom design himself should he then claim it as his design and ownership after a client paying $200,000 which includes additional sub contracted costs, such as structural analysis, loads data gathering, separate tank testing and wind tunnel testing paid for by the client, not the designer because he does not have that data or prepared to fund to obtain for himself to make himself more knowledgeable and more experienced and the results given to him to incorporate into his computer design parameters model to custom design accordingly and to use such data for all other designs then add it to his stock plans portfolio to charge other impressed wanting clients some similar amount?
     

  15. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    If you want a genuine custom design that you own exclusively then the request should be built into the original contract which you sign at the beginning of the design process. Ideas are cheap and the world is chock full of them but making those ideas into a cohesive, achievable and well engineered package is the challenge.
     
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