Kitchen rudder

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by duluthboats, Mar 8, 2002.

  1. Stephen Ditmore
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,389
    Likes: 44, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 699
    Location: Smithtown, New York, USA

    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    Hi Boden B.P. Do you know who made the steering gear for the Royal Navy? Also, do you know what configuration they've gone to for launches since abandoning the Kitchener?

    Here's an interesting rudder-related site:
    http://www.ruddersteering.com/rudders.html

    Note also: I'm interested in spec'ing a Vari-Pitch prop:
    http://www.varipitchmarine.com/
    as soon as they have a version ready for inboards.
     
  2. Mike D
    Joined: Sep 2002
    Posts: 104
    Likes: 18, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 465
    Location: Canada

    Mike D Senior Member

    Too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth as they say but I wanted to stir things up a bit, too :)

    The attached file is a .GIF image of a scan of a page in vol 2 of Basic Ship Theory by Rawson and Tupper.

    The following is an extract from Basic Naval Architecture by Barnaby;
    Their comments, I thought, might add a little. Rawson & Tupper were in the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors when the books were written, first published in 1968 & mine are edition 2 from 1976. The RCNC is the British Admiralty design/building/repair group (more or less). Barnaby was a consulting nav arch (and a damn good one), his book was first published in 1949 and I have edition 3 from 1969.

    Barnaby's book is much more down to earth and practical than most books on naval architecture - he is very terse so the book is full of meat. Naturally, it is out-of-date when discussing Class Rules and the like, nothing about computers so it isn't a math text book like all the modern books and it contains a mountain of good stuff. Highly recommended.
    Michael
     

    Attached Files:

  3. duluthboats
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 1,585
    Likes: 43, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 779
    Location: Minneapolis,MN, USA

    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

    Michael,
    Welcome to the forum. Thanks for adding to my collection of Kitchen rudder information. I started this thread, and it was my first post here. I still have a fascination for this rudder. But I have been to busy to work on it much.

    I noticed you have added to a few other threads, again thanks. Maybe you would like to take a peek at O-1 and give your $.02.
    ;)

    Gary
     
  4. Mike D
    Joined: Sep 2002
    Posts: 104
    Likes: 18, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 465
    Location: Canada

    Mike D Senior Member

    Gary

    I'll have at look at O-1 when I get through a few points here.

    Don't count on too much from me on the overall design of it because my last design was for something 160 m long, say 525 feet. Now that's just a tad too big for a runabout

    My entire working life has been ships; mainly design but always in shipbuilding. Many of the theoretical aspects of floating vessels are the same whether they be VLCC, Cruise-ships, Ferries, Tugs, Barges, Row-boats or Runabouts. The application is different, standards and so on are different so I'll have no hesitation about some things but I'll shy away from many others.

    But I'm looking forward to joining the fray and thanks for the welcoming and your invitation
    Michael.
     
  5. Steve Gray
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 22
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Weymouth, UK

    Steve Gray Junior Member

    I once drove an ex-RN harbour launch that had a Kitchen rudder, much to the amusement of the owner who'd lovingly restored it. There are interesting tips in the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship (1981 Vol II p309+), which extolls the virtues of the Kitchen: "...the most manoevrable of all single-screw boats, and more manoevrable than many twin-screw boats...", "...rudder effect ... is far greater at all speeds", "speed of boat... can be controlled with tiller wheel alone...". I haven't seen one of these for ages, and remember that they were notorious for getting fouled easily (but surely no more so than a Kurt, which are still in wide use). I wouldn't mind the arrangement on my current long-keeler, though!
     
  6. Clif1f
    Joined: Nov 2002
    Posts: 2
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: St. Paul, MN

    Clif1f New Member

    I, too am fascinated by this rudder. I would appreciate hearing any news of full-size success with this device.

    I'm not sure exactly what a patent means in this context. The 1990 patent does not seem any different in theory from the 1916 idea.

    If I manage to fabricate one, could there possibly be a request for royalties? There is not much in the way of construction details.

    Does anyone out there understand how the hydraulic arm is activated? Until I can figure out how to do two things at once (not my strong suit), I can't figure out how I could drive a boat and operate the clam shells. Any ideas, especially from a helm position.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  7. duluthboats
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 1,585
    Likes: 43, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 779
    Location: Minneapolis,MN, USA

    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

    Hi Clif

    The controls would be similar to those on most boats today. The clamshell is controlled by one lever. (forward/reverse) Steering is with a wheel. From the helm you wouldn’t notice any difference, in appearance anyway.

    Welcome aboard, and it’s nice to see another Farmer fan in my neck of the woods.

    Gary :D
     
  8. Mike D
    Joined: Sep 2002
    Posts: 104
    Likes: 18, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 465
    Location: Canada

    Mike D Senior Member

    Gary

    I saw a modern example of a Kitchen rudder yesterday. My wife and I were flying home after spending New Year's at our son's. The plane landed and I was idly watching the wing flaps as we raced along the runway then the "thingammajig" employed and the thrust reverser slowed us down.

    You are an aircraft mechanic, I believe, so you might be able to find one from a plane flown by a little old lady only in good weather :D

    Michael
     
  9. duluthboats
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 1,585
    Likes: 43, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 779
    Location: Minneapolis,MN, USA

    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

    Hi Mike,

    Happy New Year.

    Yes the clam shell thrust reversers on some large aircraft make very good brakes. They are even used to back the planes away from the gates sometimes. Every time I see one I also think of the Kitchen rudder. Thanks for bringing this back to the top. Maybe someone new will see it and have an addition.

    Gary :D
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    In the 1950's I was member of the ships boats crew on a British cruiser. Our pinnance was eqiupped with what we rightly or wrongly called "Kitchener gear". It was great for manouverability, however, going from full ahead to full astern with a full load (40 or so crewmen) as you approached the ships ladder took some judging and a great deal of work on the part of the coxswain who had to spin a small wheel which controlled the two "arks" of the rudder. It took a well trained crew to bring the pinnance alongside the ships ladder, fighting North Sea currents and winds while under the eagle eye of the Office of the Watch who wanted to ensure that the ladder survived without a scratch.
    Jim Hendrickson
     
  11. Stephen Ditmore
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,389
    Likes: 44, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 699
    Location: Smithtown, New York, USA

    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    Thanks for the informative post, Jim. Nothing like real world experience!
     
  12. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    my kitchener gear

    hi just writing to let you know i have kitchener gear on my 1940 ex admrilty pinnace she is a 35footer and in my oppinion the system is excellent from tjgee58@hotmail.com
     
  13. KitchenRudderNu
    Joined: Mar 2004
    Posts: 1
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

    KitchenRudderNu New Member

    Are you still interested in the Kitchen Rudder ?

    Hi there,
    Google found mention of an old entry you made enquiring about Kitchen's Rudder. I have just restored my old Kitchen Rudder which I removed from my 32' naval cutter, originally from the Ark Royal, a Royal Navy aircraft carrier.
    I have the rudder assembly mounted on a stand in my office as a sort of conversation piece!
    If you want some photos of it, I would be glad to email them to you.
     
  14. duluthboats
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 1,585
    Likes: 43, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 779
    Location: Minneapolis,MN, USA

    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

    If you would like to e-mail them to me that would be great and I’ll add them to my gallery here at boatdesign.net. Or you could start your own gallery here and include pictures of your boat along with the rudder. Welcome to the forum, I look forward to hearing more from you.

    Gary :D
     

  15. SeaDrive
    Joined: Feb 2004
    Posts: 223
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Connecticut

    SeaDrive Senior Member

    There is a chapter about the Kitchen rudder in the book "From My Old Boatshop" by the late Weston Farmer. It provides some commentary and perspective, but probably not a lot of hard information that you don't already have. It does have an advertisement for an outboard motor version, though.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.