Kayak specifictions, which design to go for ?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Vulkyn, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    I have a friend of mine who is interested to build a Kayak.
    So i sat down with him and took down some notes as to help him choose a design that would fit his requirements (for some reason he thinks i know about boats ... delusions if you ask me... :p)

    So here goes:
    * Open canoe for river long trip kayaking
    * 2 Seater + space for storage (around 170 - 200 Kg weight including gear)
    * Must be stable since a lot of power boats are present in the area so some time lots of wakes.
    * Simple construction that has too be light weight, as part of the journey the kayakers will have to carry it with them. (I prefer strip or S&G, fiber is ok but i guess it will be heavier)
    * Length i am not sure but the design will be the determining factor.


    So based on the above i will have a look for designs that fit this criteria, any input or help would be fantastic ! :)
     
  2. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Is it a canoe or a kayak?
     
  3. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Hmm sorry i am not well versed in the English terms... Kayaks are closed canoes are open if i am not mistaken ?

    I had a look in wiki seems canoe is more of what my friend has in mind ...

    "When exactly a canoe can be called a kayak is difficult to determine though, and often arbitrary. Internationally, the term canoeing is used as a generic term for both forms though the terms "paddle sports" or "canoe/kayak" are also used. In North America, however, 'canoeing' usually refers only to canoes, as opposed to both canoes and kayaks. Paddling a kayak is also referred to as kayaking." Good old wiki lol ... :p
     
  4. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Canoes can be decked over too. Kayaks can be "sit on top too'. The terms are not as defined as they used to be. However, "candian canoes" are open. Strip planking is very difficult and time consuming. Plywood is a better option is you are looking for easy. Fiberglass is not a good option for a one-off boat. For the load you are specifying and stabilitiy, it should be about 5 meters long.
     
  5. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Many thanks Gonzo !! ill have a look at 5 meter long S&G plans, although i am bound by only 1 supplier with stupid prices (160 $ for 6mm marine grade) .

    Will S&G withstand the abuse? Its gona be a good LONG trip and probably will be couple of boats not one ....
     
  6. AnalogKid
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    AnalogKid Junior Member

    6mm ply is likely to make quite a heavy canoe. It doesn't have to be marine grade, a canoe is kept dry between trips and is usually lifted out between each day's paddling on an extended trip, so well painted ply that has a waterproof glue between plies should be adequate.

    As for designs, if you want a really quick build, there's a free design at bataeu and Michael Storer has the Quick 155 design. Selway-Fisher has lots of open canoe deigns for strip, stitch and tape and ply lapstrake building techniques.
     
  7. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Thx Analog i did go through Salway and glen and selected a couple of potential "candidates".

    This is not going to be a typical small round trip, but a heavy duty 1 month trip, so i will try to avoid any low grade material and go for marine grade. Its gone be in the water for a long period of time repetitively.

    4mm to 6mm are the norm but i would prefer a rigid boat that will have to handle a lot of abuse including moving on rough terrain things like accidental falls and drops etc... So tough boat is essential.

    The point that worries me is stability so what ever design i choose has to give good stability as mentioned due to power boats. (i have never been in a canoe or kayak hence my excessive caution.)
     
  8. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    I recently built a 17' 2" skin-on-frame kayak to my own design. It weighs an ungodly 45 lbs, about 10 lbs more than I expected. I simply went heavy on the scantlings.
    There are plans for these of course. Also kits. Few plywood kayaks of this length are as light but expect about 50lbs from stitch and glue plywood.
    The beauty of skin-on-frame is that the cost of materials is very low. They can be the very lightest kayaks as well, some weighing in the mid twenties.
    Design your own and it's not the end of the world if you need to change some things or even throw away your first attempt.
     
  9. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Many thx alan, but i do not want to design myself, not now anyways building is enough of a challange as it is !! :)

    I do not know if i can find ballistic nylon in Egypt or not but i will have a look :) All kayaks / canoes will be 2 man operated so the weight factor is more forgiving than a one man kayak / canoe
     
  10. luckystrike
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    luckystrike Power Kraut

    Hello Vulkyn,

    here are some possible designs for your project.

    My first Idea when i read your post was the "Peace Canoe" from CLC Boats , but it needs 5 sheets of plywood to be built, this a lot for this kind of craft.
    http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/canoes/traditional_canoes/peace-canoe-weekend-boat-kit.html

    Second would be the Chenoa 16 Design you can find here. http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/CH12_study.htm?prod=CH12

    I'am not familiar with this kind of boats so I cannot say how they perform. Both are more than 1m (39') wide and this should give a pretty stable boat. They are made for plwood construction that should make building fast. Visual apperance in canoes is mostly influenced by the form of their sterns. There you can (within limits) modify the plans to fit your personal taste.

    This boat needs just two sheets of 1/4' ply and I think this is ok.

    A strip canoe is a lot of work and i think this does not fit your needs.

    Grrreetings from the North Sea Coast, Michel
     
  11. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Thx for the links and post luckystrike :)

    Yah marine plywood prices are ridicules so the lower the qty the better :p
    And i do like the bateau design, looks like it has what i need.

    I am still not sure how tough S&G will be with epoxy and fiber. Can it stand abuse? or should i seek another building method plan like strip planking?
     
  12. AnalogKid
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    AnalogKid Junior Member

    An S&G boat should be plenty tough enough, especially of this size built with 6mm ply. Obviously if you paddle full speed into a rock with a heavy load, something is likely to break, but epoxy filleted and glass taped seams will be stronger than the surrounding plywood. Extra abrasion resistance can be had by coating the bottom with epoxy an graphite powder, or the old fashion method of fixing sacrificial wooden runners to the bottom of the hull.
     
  13. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    Skin of frame is the way to go, you do not need nylon for the skin. Any heavy weight tight weave fabric will do. I have used nylon, polyester and cotton duck, even heavy plastic sheeting. It is fast and inexpensive to build from local materials, any reasonably clear and light weight wood will do. I have build 7 or 8 traditional kayaks, and a number of other small boats (including a 14' sailboat) using the same construction method. most any water tight paint will work as the sealant, laytex, oil based paint, or polyurethane varnish, I have also used Hyperion roof sealant. I can salvage all of the lumber, and they cost only $40 to $70 US to build, not more than $100 even if you buy everthing retail (no reason to use boat lumber either, just select some clear planks from the lumber pile and rip them into stringers).

    about 18 feet long and 3 feet wide will give you a nice stable hull (make sure the bottom is fairly flat), you can deck the front and back and call it either a decked canoe, or a 2 person kayak.

    study these links and you can figure out how to make it, or do your own search and you can find plans and instructions on the internet for free.

    http://www.traditionalkayaks.com/Kayakreplicas/KayakReplicas.html

    Good luck
     
  14. flo-mo
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    flo-mo Junior Member


  15. terhohalme
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    terhohalme BEng Boat Technology

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