Just How Safe Is MingMing2

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Letsgosailing, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. Letsgosailing
    Joined: Sep 2018
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Wales

    Letsgosailing Junior Member

    Sorry if I'm asking this in the wrong area.
    As I'm sure 90% of this place is aware Mingming 2 is an Achilles 24 converted to junk rig and sailed to the Arctic for long voyages by Roger Taylor. I am an admirer of his type of sailing and have ideas of visiting far remote places. So for my first solo boat conversion I am considering essentially cloning Mingming2 as it seems to have quite the reputation for it's seaworthiness and offshore capability. (I'm qalified in Marine construction by the way I'm not just 'having a bash')

    Having not read any of Mr Taylor's books yet, I have only watched his videos and interviews on youtube and read various articles , all seem to draw the conclusion of it being a very decent boat. I am left wondering just how capable his setup is. This Achilles 24 must have it's own achilles heel. How do you think the vessel would fair against the harshness of the southern ocean, What can the famous lamp post mast endure, etc.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 324
    Likes: 41, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    The Southern Ocean is no place to single-hand and a 24' boat is small for crew to live below for days and weeks on end.
     
    rwatson likes this.
  3. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 417
    Likes: 40, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    You do realize that Roger Taylor typically lives for a month at a time in MM-II without getting off. For instance, he will sail from his home base in the UK, and circumnavigate Iceland, or sail to Jan Mayen island, or sail to the Davis Strait between Greenland and Canada, then return back to the UK -- all without anchoring or getting off his boat.
     
  4. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,378
    Likes: 196, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    For solo non stop high latitude sailing up to 70°~80°N Roger usually takes for 100 days food and water supplies with him, but normally returns in 60 ~ 70 days, because that's a trip length that suits him, and it gives him sufficient reserve supplies for emergencies as well.

    Yes MM-II is a safe boat, but not safer than the capacities of the crew, for a lot of boats the crew is the limiting safety factor.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  5. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 324
    Likes: 41, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    And as I recall Rodger got busted up one time in a knock-down that probably would have been fatal if he were in the MUCH larger and sparsely (as in un)populated Southern Ocean, which is where the OP is intending to travel, not the Arctic.
     
  6. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 1,797
    Likes: 76, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 611
    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    After watching the video, it became clear to me that MM2 was intended to sail in mostly light winds. Its hull type and rig seem quite suited for this purpose. If faced with rough conditions it can certainly handle them up to a point. The main vulnerability I see is to a vicious rollover caused by a rough sea. Because it has short, fin keels, the hull form is not likely to dampen the blow much. The apparently unstayed mast is likely to take the brunt of the blow, which may cause it to fail even before the boat rolls over. The relatively small spade rudder, buttressed only by an extremely short, deep skeg is also good for light winds but may mean trouble in rougher stuff. I knew of one boat which had a skeg like that, which broke so many times that the skipper finally decided not to replace it. The deep, short rudder can also stall causing the boat to broach, but the twin keels may help resist this.

    The unstayed mast could be made of carbon fiber with a thicker laminate and made shorter to compensate for the greater weight, with some sacrifice of sail area. Perhaps a bigger rudder could be added even if it remained a spade type.

    But for my money, I would much prefer to be out there in a boat with a long keel fin and an attached rudder. I would also prefer a masthead cutter rig with a short enough mast to make for sturdy angles for stays and shrouds. Such a boat would certainly have its own vices but would be less likely to be rolled over in the first place and more likely to come back up with its mast intact if it was.
     
    Angélique likes this.
  7. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 324
    Likes: 41, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    With only 24' of hull and where he wanted to operate, I'm sure it was pretty much, "Ok, lets sail." and "OMFG! Heave too and hold onto your arse!" with little in between.
     
  8. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,378
    Likes: 196, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  9. RHP
    Joined: Nov 2005
    Posts: 822
    Likes: 81, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 1183
    Location: Singapore

    RHP Senior Member

    I currently own my second Achilles 24 and I consider her to be extremely sea worthy, capable and forgiving yacht. One sailed from the UK to NZ, there's the book of one doing an Atlantic circuit ' Big Bloke Small Boat Voyage Of A Madman' by William Garnier . Roger Taylor of course is the ultimate confirmation of her sea keeping abilities.

    Join the owners discussion forum and get all the answers you need: Achilles | Flickr https://www.flickr.com/groups/achilles24/discuss/
     
  10. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,378
    Likes: 196, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Richard,

    What kind of keel form did and do you have on your first and second Achilles 24, triple keel or single fin keel . . . ?

    [​IMG]
    pic source

    [​IMG]
    pic source
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  11. RHP
    Joined: Nov 2005
    Posts: 822
    Likes: 81, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 1183
    Location: Singapore

    RHP Senior Member

    Hi Angel, my first boat was a fin, I sold her when I moved abroad. I bought a triple keel 15 years later and shipped her to Singapore where I still have her. I used to race another fin and a triple on the first boat and overall there is little noticeable difference between the two configurations, maybe the fin is slightly faster in light winds and the triple slightly more staple in choppy waters. Great boat though, as cheap as chips and absolutely bulletproof.
     
  12. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,378
    Likes: 196, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Thanks for the info Richard !
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  13. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,378
    Likes: 196, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    I think it can endure a lot, but if he loses it Roger will deal with it I guess, and sets up a jury rig with the left over bits and pieces and sails home or to another port with it, like e.g. Maud Fontenoy and Chris Butler did.

    [​IMG]
    Roger Taylor and MM-II's lamp post mast in the makingpic source
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
    valery gaulin likes this.
  14. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,378
    Likes: 196, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    The below quote is about MM-I and comes from the last above link, and I'm sure there's a jury rig plan for MM-II too, besides using the remaining pieces of the lost rig.

    ‘‘ The 15 ft ash sweeps lying along the foredeck, which Roger uses to propel himself in and out of harbour when there’s no wind, will also double as a jury mast or a jury steering oar, should either be required. ’’
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018

  15. RHP
    Joined: Nov 2005
    Posts: 822
    Likes: 81, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 1183
    Location: Singapore

    RHP Senior Member

    Truth be known I wouldn't hesitate to modify my A24 then sail her back to Liverpool I have that much confidence in her seakeeping. She's cramped inside though and my good lady wife thinks I'm mad but what's new....
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.