Just an Idea!

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by WerpKerp, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    This book is a manual of hydrofoil design that can help you figure out area etc. It doesn't cover everything but handles the basics very, very well for a reasonable cost:
    https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofoils-Design-Build-Ray-Vellinga/dp/0982236115
    ====
    This very, very long thread covers the conception, design and development of a Test Model trimaran that pioneered the foil system you described as well as some info on fullsize tri's that use similar versions of the basic Fire Arrow Foil System and more:
    High Performance MPX Foil/Self-righting Trimaran-The Test Model https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/high-performance-mpx-foil-self-righting-trimaran-the-test-model.36058/page-179#post-825412

    Fire Arrow Test Model--same basic foil system now used by Maserati, Gitana 17 and Banque Populaire:
    MPX Fire Arrow-First Full Flying Foiling on video-7-24-14 009 (2).JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  2. WerpKerp
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    WerpKerp Junior Member

    Would the Fire Arrow foiling system work better on the Poor Man's Superfoiler?
     
  3. WerpKerp
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    WerpKerp Junior Member

    Or an upscaled Fire Arrow Test Model build? Full size.
     
  4. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ---------------------------
    This is the basic description of the Fire Arrow Foil System...........and the similar foil systems on Maserati, Gitana 17 and Banque Populaire.
    PS-the Fire Arrow Test Model is an exact scale model of a 19.5' sport trimaran......
     
  5. Dolfiman
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Dear Doug, Many thanks for this comprehensive source of references, and of course thanks to Tom for this foils comparison.
     
  6. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    -------------------------------
    You're welcome!
     
  7. OzFred
    Joined: Nov 2015
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    OzFred Senior Member

    Please do it, the world needs to know… luckily the details have been condensed to just 2,682 posts (there's an occasional repost though). ;-)
    I think a 420 or Contender rig will leave it way underpowered, but what do I know?
     
    David Cooper likes this.
  8. gggGuest
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    gggGuest ...

    I think a 420 or Contender rig will have a hard time doing the job. Going to be much better off with a stable fully battened sail. Really I submit it has to be a fully battened and preferably mylar or better sail from one of the high performance classes, monohull or multihull.
     
  9. WerpKerp
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    WerpKerp Junior Member

    So how about an upscaled Fire Arrow with a Mylar 29er Rig? Carbon masts.
     
  10. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Before you can pick a rig you have to have an accurate idea of what the boat will weigh including crew. And you have to also decide what wind speed you want the boat to takeoff in and what the boat speed needs to be in those conditions. Don't buy or build anything until you have done detailed design work.
    The NACRA 5.8 rig (241sq.ft) may be closer to what you need but you can't possibly make a reasonable estimate w/o knowing the projected all up weight of the boat as well as making the decision about target takeoff wind speed.
    One of the advantages of the Fire Arrow Foil System is that the boat can be designed to takeoff in very light air and also be very stable in strong wind. The System makes it possible to effectively utilize an oversquare platform.
    Do you have any boat design and/ or foiler design experience?
    ===================
    Check out the basic "Wolf-daughter of fire arrow" specs here, post 2654(toward bottom of page)-16fter/217 sq.ft. SA upwind, 275lb weight, 5 knots target windspeed takeoff:
    High Performance MPX Foil/Self-righting Trimaran-The Test Model https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/high-performance-mpx-foil-self-righting-trimaran-the-test-model.36058/page-177
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  11. WerpKerp
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    WerpKerp Junior Member

    Okay, crew weight will be around 160 to 150 pounds, takeoff windspeed should be from 6 to 8 knots, and boat speeds are going to be up of 20 knots, hopefully around 25 downwind, and 12 to 13 upwind. I don't have any foiler design experience, but I do have a miniscule amount of boat design experience.
     

  12. WerpKerp
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Long Island, New York

    WerpKerp Junior Member

    I started a new thread in Boatbuilding Fiberglass and Composites to discuss building and design. Go check it out guys! Thanks!
     
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