Jon boat WITh cat sail.

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by nshoutex1965, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. nshoutex1965
    Joined: Nov 2012
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    nshoutex1965 Junior Member

    Hello all.

    I have a new hobby. I plan on bulding a boat I can sail and god for bid if its wrong to say, but to drop sail and fish for a while off the coast of Galveston or Texas.....

    After some help from others here, I have decided to go after a pacific pelican. I am staying with the 16 foot idea so me and my buds and family can go out.... I am having trouble finding plans so far... I am a student and the cost of the saws alone this month have put me behind.

    Any positive ideas, Tips, Tricks, and warnings would be greatly appreciated.

    Building this is just a hobby... I sailed when I was younger this little 2 seater in Lake Waxahachie Near Dallas. Ever since then, It got in my blood and I cant help but take notice of a sail boat, the water, or want to get out there myself. I certainly can not afford to buy my own boat however, so I am building one, and taking the time and love, to put it together. One part at a a time.

    Any Ideas on the plans? Its going to be a home depot project. So these fancy boat shops are not in my price range at all.

    I would like to use a cat rig.

    As I mentioned, I am a student and have enjoyed reading your texts here much more than some of my school books. LOL and need to do something with my time other than read.... or party.... so this is it.

    please go ahead and send positive ideas.... thoughts and comments. I know nothing except to know enough to ask the experts here.

    Novice Sailer HOU TEX

    its a hobby.

    but should be fun.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  2. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    DCockey Senior Member

    What are you studying?

    What have you built before?

    By "jon boat" do you mean a boat with flat sides and bottom and curvature?

    Have you considered starting with something smaller?
     
  3. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    messabout Senior Member

    You have described a barge not a sailboat. Built with those dimensions it will be insufferable. AN 18 footer need not be wider than four feet at the chine. That will be enough chine width unless you put up too much sail or you plan to sail while drunk.

    The black pipe in your mast is a no no. The mast should be kept as light as possible consistent with the load that will be applied. A shaped wooden mast is cheap enough if you are willing to do the work to make it right. Cheap sails can be made of Tyvek which is a big box store (Home Depot, Lowes, etc.) item.

    Four millimeter ply,not 4 mil ply, probably Luan, from HD is questionable for a boat much larger than a bathtub.. Excessive fiberglass will make the boat heavy and the excess glass will be more expensive than the thicker and more satisfactory plywood that you did not use. Four mils is about the thickness of common writing paper. Four millimeters is just a bit more than one eighth inch. A a lmination of three or four plies of the 4 mm ply will be about what you need to build a boat. It will make more sense to use 10mm or 3/8 ply in the first place.

    Go down to the waterfront or yacht club and take a look at sailboats. you need to study the subject for a while before you do any design work. Please do before you spend time and money on an uninformed design. Better than that just get a set of plans for a simple boat. A plan set that has been done by a professional designer. For utmost simplicity and economy you can look at boats from the drawing board of Phil Bolger. Google Dynamite Payson also.
     
  4. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    Your idea is not a bad one, but you need to refine the design a bit. An iron pipe mast is too heavy and not strong enough, better with a laminated wood mast, that you can form with hand tools. It will cost about the same as the pipe, but be stronger and lighter.

    a double 2x8 keels is WAY heaver than you need for a boat that size. I have used a single 1x4 for the keel on a 14 foot sailboat. Do not make it any heavier than you need, it will be heavy to move around, slow and cost more than it needs to.

    rather than a jon boat, you can build something similar but is more useful as a sailboat. Look into building what is called a scow type hull. Perhaps even a up-sized Puddle Duck hull. Go study the size of the frames of similar size boats from existing plans (see links below). You will find nothing so heavy.

    I have built a lot of small boats with hardware store lumber (select carefully from the stack and expect to remill it on a table saw). I have built small sailboats for about $50, sometimes buying, sometimes salvaging construction materials. Good sails can be made from Tyvek house wrap, blue traps, etc. Use duck tape and you can avoid sewing them. It all comes down to careful design around the strength and quality of the building materials you are using.

    You will need some kind of dagger board or lee boats with any kind of a sail or you will not be able to control it. the dagger board resists the lateral loads on the sail and allows you to make headway, and makes the rudder more effective. There is almost no way around it, I have tried. some have managed to make strakes or small winglets work instead of a dagger board, but it requires a fairly heavy deep displacement hull.

    Go read this thread for ideas, I have posted pictures of boats that I built for less than $50:

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/projects-proposals/challenge-100-boat-12176.html


    Go study the free plans on these pages:

    http://www.svensons.com/boat/

    http://www.polysail.com/oldboats.htm

    http://www.boatbuilding-links.de/

    http://www.boat-links.com/Tyvek/index.html

    http://koti.kapsi.fi/hvartial/#XX2

    good luck.
     
  5. nshoutex1965
    Joined: Nov 2012
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    nshoutex1965 Junior Member

    Thank you so much for these helpful ideas!

    I will be cooking dinner and then off to see the sites you gave me.

    everyone so far was a great deal of help...

    Thanks!
     
  6. nshoutex1965
    Joined: Nov 2012
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    nshoutex1965 Junior Member



    I am working on my Masters degree in counseling. Thanks for asking!!

    times like this however, I wish I had more engineering. I can follow plans to build a house, I have subcontracted HVAC residential and light commericial. This includes the plumbing side. I figured that a boat would be a challenge and fun.

    the reason for the " Barge " idea.... and I see that I was in error. however the second boat I would try... just for fun, would be a pontoon boat... and use the barge .. as the platform.... LOL

    but I see your point on it being too large yal... thanks again!

    I will keep it simple. and smaller.... ill end up with two boats but thats ok.

    What i really want, is to sail the coast or in the Bay of Galveston. so that is the second reason I was aiming for a larger boat.
     
  7. alan white
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    alan white Senior Member

    Then definitely forget the jon boat idea. I get that you want simplicity. There are boat designs that are simple, like a jon boat butfar better for sailing and infinitely more seaworthy. A San Francisco Pelican (12 ft) is a plywood design with a square bow.
    Google "platypus boats"
    While only 12 ft, it is a very seaworthy boat due to the large volume afforded by the square bow.
    I think it's great to experiment as you seem to be with your unique ideas for the mast and so forth, but it would make a lot of sense for you to experiment with your second boat, not your first. Once you find out how much work is involved, you will, I believe, be far more conservative and appreciative of what is already available to you in terms of a design. Good luck no matter what you do in any case.
     
  8. nshoutex1965
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    nshoutex1965 Junior Member


    This is sound wisdom, Thanks!
     
  9. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    DCockey Senior Member

    If you want a simple and inexpensive project which can get you on the water quickly consider the PDRacer. I've heard there is also a 12 foot version.

    As Messabout commented sails can be made from Tyvek and I've seen some very nice ones.
     
  10. nshoutex1965
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    nshoutex1965 Junior Member




    This looks like a lot of fun!
    but its not what im looking for... maybe later when my mother would not die of a heart attack... or me for that matter.. LOL

    Thanks for the input
     
  11. nshoutex1965
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    nshoutex1965 Junior Member




    I have looked into the great pelican and the pacific pelican. both of these have curves im not sure I can master... perhaps with some help from the pros here I could though.

    the water line looks high, tell me, how do you keep the waves out of the boat? of any boat.... and if you dont, how do you get the water out besides bailing. In HVAC we used a battery opperated pump called the little giant. for the condensation when vertical clime was needed to expel the water.

    a little water is fun, a lot of water is a call to the coast guard.


    I cant thank you guys enough by the way
     
  12. nshoutex1965
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    nshoutex1965 Junior Member



    I have read somewhere on here about the pvc mast idea.... many were against but many were for it too.... someone mentioned pouring foam into the mast to make it more stout. Pouring foam, well that lost me. Could you tell me more about it?

    I have abandoned the black pipe idea. I did not consider the weight. Thanks for that. That is a top heavy problem no doubt. Also, it may be a lightning ground!!!! Don’t want my boat torn apart by Zeus or God.

    I’m still considering the pvc idea though. toilet flange upside down can mount to the deck a busing can bring it down to 2 inch another to 1.25 inch and that is one of the pipes I was going to secure, with a 2 inch around it to swivel freely.

    Your input is very down to earth and encouraging… Thanks!
     
  13. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    ditch the pvc mast idea, it is a waste of time. PVC has no strength as a mast, wood is actualy much stronger, lighter (for the same sength), cheap and has a long proven track record. the sail is what drive the boat forward, it is your "motor", all of the driving forces are transmitted through the mast and rigging to the hull, PVC will not handle the laods unless you use massively heavy (and costly) sections. Stay with what works for now, experiment later. some time on the water will cure you of misunderstandings of why things are done the way they are.


    As suggested, study what has worked before first, built it and gets some time on it. after than you can experiment.
     
  14. GTO
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    GTO Senior Member

    I tried the PVC pipe mast on my 16 foot Windsprint (see instantboats.com) after a failed glue-up of two 2x4s. It did work, but required stays and shrouds. Mine was (I think) about 12' of 3" with maybe 4' of 2" at the top. I also added some foam.
    Turn out very heavy, weak, and in general unsatisfactory.

    Since the only 2x4s I could find at HD and Lowes were a combination of bent, twisted, split, or knotted, I found a local lumber supply yard and was able to purchase some very nice 1x4 spruce that I laminated into a mast. Much lighter and stiff enough that I did not need any stays/shrouds.
    So yeah, forget the PVC. You're not going to do yourself any favors.
     

  15. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Look to the boats and sailplans that fisherman used for hundreds of years before the invention of the engine. Many are very simple, seaworthy
     
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