ISO 12215-5: 2019

Discussion in 'Class Societies' started by TANSL, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. JotM
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    JotM Junior Member

    As I highlighted above, until the 2019 version of the standard is referenced in the Official Journal of the European Union (OJEU) it is not that the 2008 version of the standard can still be used, it must still be used. (to show compliance with European harmonised law, in other words, for the CE marking and declaration of conformity)
    ISO and CEN can do whatever they want, the EU (European Commission) has its own pace. Using the 2019 version of the standard as underpinning of a CE marking or declaration of conformity is illegal until publication of the reference in the OJEU.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  2. valber
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    valber Naval Architect

    The application of harmonized standards gives a presumption of conformity, but is not mandatory. You can use ANY acceptable methods (as well as the classification societies rules) to assess the structural integrity of the boat hull.
    So if someone wants to use the latest version of the standard, he can legally do it and should indicate this in the declaration of conformity...
     

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  3. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    What implications could have the fact that most of the regulations of the CS are not applicable to ships of less than 24 m in length?
    I recently requested a program created by the ABS for the yacht scantling. I intended to use it for a 12 m yacht and the person responsible for the ABS has warned me that their program is not applicable for boats under 24 m.
     
  4. valber
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    valber Naval Architect

    Some CS still have rules applicable for yachts <24m of hull length. For example, these are BV NR 500 and RINA - Rules for Pleasure Yachts.
    The BV has free software for strength analysis of composite hulls - ComposeIT.
     
  5. Nikol25
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    Nikol25 New Member

    please, can you give the official reference?
     
  6. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    The only thing I can say is what appears in the Spanish version of UNE-EN ISO 12215-5 of July 2020: "This standard will cancel and replace the UNE-EN ISO 12215-5: 2019 standard before 2021-07-01" . See picture.
    In Spain, the UNE-EN ISO 12215-5: 2019 was published, which was exactly the same as UNE-EN ISO 12215-5: 2008, while in July of that same year the ISO organization published ISO 12215-5: 2019. In 2020 the UNE-EN 12215-5-2020 (the one in the picture) was published, which is the same as ISO 12215-5: 2019.
     

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  7. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    The ABS yacht rule used to be listed as valid for yachts under 24 m (I don't recall the old lower length limit) but ABS decided to change the listing several years ago. I heard the story about the reasons for the change from a knowledgable person but do not recall al the details. What I do recall is the reason was partly economic and partly related to the ISO rule becoming the prevelant rule. Similar reasons may be behind other organizations dropping their under 24 m rules. I've also heard that that at least the original version of the ISO rule was based in large part on the old ABS rule.
     
  8. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I have also heard that but I have not been able to confirm it, I think that it is rather a rumor with little basis. What does seem clear is the treatment of scantlings in non-homogeneous materials, as it appears in ISO 12215-5: 2008 (analysis by layers), it is much more rigorous than the requirements of ABS and other CS in that times that simply spoke of thickness and modules of inertia. Frankly, and it's just my opinion, I don't think the calculations for FRP and other non-homogeneous materials will be based on ABS which, on the other hand, does not seem to give any procedure for plywood, strip planking or cold molding. But of course, I can be wrong.
     
  9. JotM
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    JotM Junior Member

  10. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

  11. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    From Principles of Yacht Design, Fourth Edition by Lars Larsson, Rolf E Eliasson and Michal Orych, 2014, page 272 in reference to the scantling portion of ISO 12215:
    the structure of it is largely based on two ABS standards: the Ocean Yacht Racing Guide (ORY 1994) and the Motor Yacht Guide (MY2000), together with NBS-VTT extended rule (1997).
    From the dust cover of the same book: Rolf Eliasson has been a member of working groups with the EU since 1990, setting ISO standards for yacht safety, stability and scantlings. A reasonable assumption is that Eliasson is aware of the origins of the scantling portion of ISO 12215.

    Added: ABS ORY 1994 includes rules for cold-molded wood, aluminum, steel and FRP construction. A copy or ORY 1994 can be downloaded for free from the ABS website in the rule archives section.
     
  12. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Found out, I take note.
     
  13. JotM
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    JotM Junior Member

    From the 2019 standard:
     
  14. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    It is possible that all these changes can be described as "improvements" but I, frankly, find it very, very difficult to apply the new procedures in practice, especially for FRP boats. It does not seem that there is an attempt to provide procedures that allow everyone, even if they are not experts in composites, to design the structure of a boat in a relatively simple but reliable way, but on the contrary, it seems to pretend that non-composites specialists never they can design a boat of those materials. It's just the feeling that comes over me as I try to dig deeper into ISO 12215-5: 2019.
    Any opinion on this?
     

  15. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    The problem is that new standards is written by 'professors', not by practicing designers... And still there quite few errors in formulas.
     
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