ISO 12215-5: 2019

Discussion in 'Class Societies' started by TANSL, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 6,216
    Likes: 295, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    The ISO 12215-5: 2019 standard has entered into force last June and introduces various changes with respect to the 2008 version, making it more complicated, if this is possible, for its use by the normal user. We are updating our "SCT" application that helps calculate the scantlings of small boats, according to that standard.
    An interesting change is that its scope has been extended to:
    • recreational craft, including reacreational charter vessels.
    • small commercial craft and workboats
    This makes the standard very useful not only for pleasure boat manufacturers but also for small shipyards of small commercial vessels.
    If you are interested in our software and/or would like more information, contact us directly.
     
    valber likes this.
  2. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 2,906
    Likes: 240, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    There is info that 2008/2014 version of standard will still be used for 2 years, any official references?

    I would not rush to use 2019 version, likely it is full of bugs.
     
  3. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 6,216
    Likes: 295, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    Thanks for the news, Alik. I will investigate about it.
    The June 2019 version says "Supersedes EN ISO 12215-5: 2018"
    I will try to adapt my software to the June 2019 version, hoping that there are not too many corrections in the final version, if any.
     
  4. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 2,906
    Likes: 240, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

  5. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 6,216
    Likes: 295, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    Thanks again, Alik. I understand, then, that the new version can already be used although, for two years, the two versions may "live" in parallel.
    I think the sooner I adapt my software to the 2019 version, the better. I will keep you informed of the progress.
     
  6. Binh Do
    Joined: Nov 2019
    Posts: 1
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Sai Gon Vietnam

    Binh Do New Member

    I think , there are some bugs must be fix in ISO 12215-5 2019 .
     
  7. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 6,216
    Likes: 295, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    ISO 12215-5: 2019 is disappointing. It has errors, of course, but that is not the most negative. They have changed formulas, criteria, definitions, and all that, I suppose, with the intention of making it more complicated for the user. If that has not been the intention then I do not understand anything. I have been working with the standard for a month and I am not yet able to establish a procedure, a suitable sequence for calculations. I have reached the determination of design pressures but from there, the next step, which should be to obtain the design sigma, I am unable to continue.
    If someone thinks they could help, their collaboration would be very welcome. Thank you all.
     
  8. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 2,906
    Likes: 240, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    You can ask this guy, he seems to have developed it: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._12215-5_for_Hull_Construction_and_Scantlings
    Unfortunately they don't want to listen practicing designers, those Uni teachers. I mentioned some faults at conference last year, but seems nothing has been corrected...
     
    TANSL likes this.
  9. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 6,216
    Likes: 295, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

  10. JotM
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 94
    Likes: 8, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 34
    Location: Leiden, the Netherlands

    JotM Junior Member

    Until the European Commission has published a reference to the 2019 version of the standard, it may not be used as a basis for CE-marking of pleasure craft.
    When that happens it will be announced here: Recreational craft - Internal Market, Industry, Entrepreneurship and SMEs - European Commission https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/recreational-craft_en
    For now, the most recently published "implementing decision" (dated 5 June 2019) references the 2018 version of the standard, so that version is the one that must be used as a basis for CE- marking. "Until further notice".
     
  11. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 6,216
    Likes: 295, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    I enclose an interesting article by Jean-Baptiste R. G. Souppez, author of ISO 12215-5: 2019. Among other useful things, the following is said :
    "With a strong emphasis on upgrading the revised standard to widen the range of structural analysis methods, it was also important not to rule out the simplified and practical ones, intended for smaller yards. Moreover, the ambition was to provide a smooth transition from one version to the other, thus ensuring consistency in the structural requirements, so that vessels comfortably passing the 2008 version would still meet the 2019 one. "
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 6,634
    Likes: 646, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

  13. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 6,216
    Likes: 295, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    Thanks for the clarification, Ad Hoc. What would we do without you?. Alik's post article is the same as my post (I had not noticed, my fault), you are more right than a saint, but perhaps my post helps to find this topic more easily.
    But, apart from the irony, which is always healthy, what I was interested in highlighting is what I have highlighted, that ISO 12215-5: 2008 can still be used even if 2019 is in force. This, in my opinion, is good news for all those who find difficulties in applying the latest version. Some of those who have tried will breathe easier to know it, but of course you have to have worked or know both versions, which does not seem to be the case with some.
    I think that, in addition to highlighting this idea, the origin of that statement had to be made clear. Anyway, it would not be the first time a thing is repeated in this forum.
    And here you can imagine the emoticon you want .....
     
  14. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 6,634
    Likes: 646, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    So, when you say this:

    Does this mean you didn't read his link, but just said thank you anyway, or, ..you had no interest in the linked article?
    Or
    You just wanted to appear to have more information than is already stated, since if anyone had opened and read the link they would know this anyway.
     

  15. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 6,216
    Likes: 295, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    Yes, Ad Hoc, you are right in some of the things you say. I read the article, above, I found it interesting, I left it to read it later in depth but forgot its content and its author. Lately, on Linkedin, I have seen a piece of news related to the author, I have collected information about it and I have found that article that, not remembering it, I have read again this time with more attention. I found it interesting, for some of the members of this forum, to highlight the paragraph that I refer to in my post. That is all that has happened and I clearly acknowledge my mistake that, I hope, there is no offense to anyone. If so, I apologize. I never have trouble recognizing my mistakes. I don't need, like others (do you know who I'm talking about?), to resort to stupid excuses. Are you happier now?. Well, I'm glad to acknowledge that you have won this battalion.

    P.S. Despite my immense mistake (which you, Ad Hoc, do well to underline), I hope my comment in post #11 is useful for more than one.
     
    Alik likes this.
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.