Is there a a low-tech sheet collection solution for small dinghies?

[laukejas]

On small sailing dinghies like the one I recently built, after the mainsheet passes into the last block and into the hand, all the rest of the sheet just sits there on the floor, getting in the way, sometimes getting tangled, sometimes getting under the shoes, when capsizing it goes over the rail and needs to be hauled back in, etc. There's like 8 meters of slack sheet to deal with when the sail is fully sheeted in. I have a bag for it, and try to put the slack into it when able, but if changing courses often and the sail needs to be let out and then back in again, the sheet is again out of the bag, and I found this solution generally not worth the effort.

I was wondering, has anyone seen or had a low-tech solution to automatically collect the slack end of the sheet in a neat way so that it doesn't tangle and get in the way? I am envisioning some kind of a drum on a low-power spring that could be tuned to be easily overpowered by even a low wind when bearing away, but just strong enough to slowly reel the sheet in when nothing is pulling on it. However I've never seen anything like it, even on racing dinghies, so perhaps there is a reason why it wouldn't work or would just be impractical. I suspect it would require very close tolerance and low friction components to work, which is not low-tech at all.

Are there any other solutions that could deal with this nuisance, apart from dedicated set of hands?

 

[gonzo]

On a racing dinghy minimum weight is necessary. All that complication is heavy and probably prone to failure. I have raced dinghies for decades and just let the sheet go down into the boat. 8 meters (25 feet) sound like a lot. How many blocks do you have? The least is better and makes maneuvers faster.

 

[laukejas]

On a racing dinghy minimum weight is necessary. All that complication is heavy and probably prone to failure. I have raced dinghies for decades and just let the sheet go down into the boat. 8 meters (25 feet) sound like a lot. How many blocks do you have? The least is better and makes maneuvers faster.

The sheeting system I have in my boat looks like this (yellow):

The end of the sheet is tied to a eye-pad on the starboard side of the transom, goes through a block on the boom, then into another block on the port side of the transom, then down into another block on the floor that is near the centerline of the boat, and then all the way forward to the front of the centerboard, through the last block, and then into the hand. So essentially a 1:2 system, which feels just right for a 10 m^2 (108 sq. ft.) sail. However, the boom extends about 3.2 meters from the mast, and the mast is about 4m away from the transom, so when the sail is at 90° angle, the distance between the end of the boom and the transom is almost 4m, times two (because 1:2) system - so 8m of sheet that ends up on the floor when the sail is hauled in. Of course it can be reduced somewhat by sacrificing that 90° angle for a bit less, but I wouldn't want to, because it makes de-powering the sail much easier for the starting line tactic games and awkward docking situations. Overall I like this sheeting system very much, but there is a lot of sheet to manage. On the other hand, if I had mid-boom sheeting or something, then I'd need more than 1:2, so there would still be a lot of sheet to handle, possibly about the same length.

And yeah, I am too for low weight and simplicity, but maybe there is some simple and light way of collecting that slack sheet, hence this post...

 

[gonzo]

I can see that with the shape of the cockpit the sheet will not stay on the bottom. Could you have a bungee cord across the boat forward of your seating position and a canvas bag to hold the sheet. I am thinking of a narrow bag that goes all the way across.

 

[philSweet]

No, but there are some alternative rigging ideas that help.

You can send the mainsheet's bitter end through a through-hull in the wing to a three or four part system underneath with the free end on a bungie. Usually you would double the sheet after the final block and do this on both sides. Being able to find the sheet after a tack is one of the benefits. Not sure it's worth it on that boat but handy on boats where you helm and sheet from a trapeze.

For boats that don't have a free-standing mast and have limited boom swing, it is easier to do. You can use a closed-loop traveler system and use the mainsheet for sail twist control, so you only need a few feet of tail. My 16'er had 12' of tail on a 5:1 mainsheet and a 3:1 closed loop traveler. I had a pennant to extend the traveller main sheet block for extended downwind sailing in heavy air while trapping out.

I think the simplest thing for you to do is replace the mainsheet's deadeye with a pivoting standup sheave and add a clam cleat. You can just take up 15' of line from the dead end when you want, cleat it off, and stuff it into the hull. I have done that on small boats before.

If you just need to occasionally swing the yard forward of 90 degrees, hang the mainsheet's yard sheave on another line run down the boom beside your outhaul. You can just slack off the one-part line and save twice the length of the boom in mainsheet tail. This also lets you bowse the yard up when moored.

 

[laukejas]

I can see that with the shape of the cockpit the sheet will not stay on the bottom. Could you have a bungee cord across the boat forward of your seating position and a canvas bag to hold the sheet. I am thinking of a narrow bag that goes all the way across.

I had a similar idea too, but since it is a lot of sheet, two times the length of the boat, while the position forward of the seating position is like 2m at the most, the sheet would have to go through pulleys 4 times inside that bag. And what worries me is that the bungee would also have to go through even more pulleys to have sufficient elongation range to be able to pull that much sheet. And also the fact that the bungee doesn't have constant force when stretched, meaning when I want to let the sail out all the way, the entire sheet would have to exit the bag and the bungee would be elongated to the max, meaning it would try really hard to pull the sheet back into the bag, possibly overpowering the force of the wind that pushes the sail out. That is, if I understood your suggestion correctly.

Phil, thank you. I am trying to visualize what you said, let me clarify:

You can send the mainsheet's bitter end through a through-hull in the wing to a three or four part system underneath with the free end on a bungie. Usually you would double the sheet after the final block and do this on both sides. Being able to find the sheet after a tack is one of the benefits. Not sure it's worth it on that boat but handy on boats where you helm and sheet from a trapeze.

Is this the same idea that gonzo suggested, except for leading the sheet sideways in the hull rather than lengthwise in a bag? I am still not sure about "doubling the sheet". Perhaps you can reference some boats that have this system so I can search for photos?

I think the simplest thing for you to do is replace the mainsheet's deadeye with a pivoting standup sheave and add a clam cleat. You can just take up 15' of line from the dead end when you want, cleat it off, and stuff it into the hull. I have done that on small boats before.

I am sorry to say that I have no idea what you mean here. What is the deadeye in this context? I think I get what you mean with the pivoting standup sheave with clam cleat (something like this, right?), but what do I do with the rest of the sheet? Stuff it where exactly? Here is a pic of my boat where you can see the part of the cockpit forward of the last mainsheet block (it is right at the forward edge of the daggerboard):

As you can see, there is just the floor, no hole/pit inside the hull for the sheet, just a floor that is level with everything else. That is where I keep the slack of the sheet, forward of the centerboard, just before the hatches.

 

[wet feet]

How about just adding a piece of fine mesh netting across the transom?It wouldn't weigh anything significant and has no moving parts.

 

[laukejas]

How about just adding a piece of fine mesh netting across the transom?It wouldn't weigh anything significant and has no moving parts.

Um, across the transom? What would it do?

 

[wet feet]

It would stop the tail of the sheet from slowing the boat by adding drag,if not actually soothing your mind.Just about any other solution adds weight and complication.Millions of dinghy sailors have to cope with rope ends in places where their presence isn't optimal and they have to learn to live with it or to add systems that complicate the boat.In pre spinnaker chute days lots of FD's had a drum that was rotated by means of twisting shockcord,but they had the space to accept additional items.

 

[laukejas]

It would stop the tail of the sheet from slowing the boat by adding drag,if not actually soothing your mind.Just about any other solution adds weight and complication.Millions of dinghy sailors have to cope with rope ends in places where their presence isn't optimal and they have to learn to live with it or to add systems that complicate the boat.In pre spinnaker chute days lots of FD's had a drum that was rotated by means of twisting shockcord,but they had the space to accept additional items.

I think I get it now, you mean a net that prevents the end of the sheet from falling out the transom? That hasn't happened on my boat yet, the sheet mainly stays in the front end of the cockpit, between the centerboard and the hatches (can be seen in the photo above). If I capsize, the sheet goes over the side, not the rear of the boat...

 

[Skip Johnson]

Since you're already 3D printer capable you might rig a spool up based on what some kite users are doing. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2545697

 

[gonzo]

I had a similar idea too, but since it is a lot of sheet, two times the length of the boat, while the position forward of the seating position is like 2m at the most, the sheet would have to go through pulleys 4 times inside that bag

I was thinking of a bungee going all the way across and a narrow wide bag where you drop the sheet into.

 

[laukejas]

I was thinking of a bungee going all the way across and a narrow wide bag where you drop the sheet into.

So you mean the sheet wouldn't be pulled by a bungee then, the bungee would just hold the bag closed or something? If I'm misunderstanding you, perhaps you have a minute to sketch it?

 

[gonzo]

The bungee would hold the top of the bag open but above the bottom of the cockpit. These type of bags are often used for halyards and sheets next to a winch.

 

[laukejas]

The bungee would hold the top of the bag open but above the bottom of the cockpit. These type of bags are often used for halyards and sheets next to a winch.

Right, okay, then that is what I have on this boat already (not in the photo I posted above though, that pic was taken before). It is better than nothing, but still requires manual effort to put the sheet into that bag after making adjustments to the sail position. I was thinking of something more automatic. But from all the replies I guess there is no simple solution to it after all. No worries, I'll manage, like all the other dinghy sailors do, just thought I'd ask