Is the ocean broken?

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by daiquiri, Oct 24, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 436
    Likes: 59, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Indeed! Let's hope that there is further corroborating research.

    It still would be a major undertaking to be carbon neutral in even 10 or 20 years. I wonder how much political capital Biden is willing to spend on AGW, and how much pushback comes from the Deniers.
     
  2. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 436
    Likes: 59, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    By use of carbon capture technologies it is possible, but very expensive. I think the direction we should push is further electrifying our economy using renewable and nuclear sources (he says as he throws another chunk of wood into his wood-burning stove).
     
  3. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 5,857
    Likes: 400, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2489
    Location: Control Group

    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Your gang was antinuke. What changed?
     
  4. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 436
    Likes: 59, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    In ‘a Huge Victory,’ California’s Joshua Tree Becomes the First Plant Protected Due to Climate Change
    • Joshua trees have existed in the Mojave Desert for 2.5 million years
    • Droughts in the southwest have left the soil too dry to support the growth of saplings, whose shallow roots that cannot reach water deep underground
    • A petition has been filed and accepted under California’s Endangered Species Act to protect Joshua trees for one year
    • It will be illegal to damage, cut down, or remove a Joshua tree without special permits
    • In addition to increased warmth, invasive, flamaable grasses and fires have damaged large areas of Joshua Tree habitat

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 1,746
    Likes: 130, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 851
    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Hang on to something. Worlds colliding.
     
  6. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 1,746
    Likes: 130, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 851
    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

     
  7. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 5,857
    Likes: 400, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2489
    Location: Control Group

    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    If you're a tree raise your limbs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
  8. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 5,857
    Likes: 400, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2489
    Location: Control Group

    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Those warning you about rising sea levels are buying property along the seaside. Do you understand now they have ulterior motives?
     
  9. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 436
    Likes: 59, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    The Ocean Is Becoming More Stable, And The Consequences May Be Dire, Scientists Warn
    • Higher temperatures in the atmospheric increase instability and amplifying extreme weather events, such as storms
    • But in the oceans higher temperatures slow the mixing between the warming surface and the cooler, oxygen-rich waters below
    • Ocean "stratification" means less deep water is rising towards the surface carrying oxygen and nutrients, while the water at the surface absorbs less atmospheric carbon dioxide to bury at depth
    • This process is exacerbated by the melting of sea ice, meaning that more fresh water also accumulates on the surface of the ocean
    The report was published in the journal Nature Climate Change
     
  10. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 945
    Likes: 438, Points: 63
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Earth is whipping around quicker than it has in a half-century | Live Science https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/earth-spinning-faster-negative-leap-second.html

    With melting ice caps and warming atmosphere and oceans, mass is being redistributed in a major change. When I was a kid playing on a swing set, I'd twist my swing until I couldn't twist it any more, then I'd let it spin. If I let my legs stretch out and I leaned back, I'd spin slowly. If I pulled myself up against the chains and brought my legs in, I'd whip around, spinning at amazing speed.

    Is there more mass at the poles when the ice melts? Does the diameter of the earth not get bigger, more mass father from the central axis, when the oceans rise, is a warmer atmosphere not thicker, higher, bigger in diameter than a cool atmosphere?

    If the Earth is spinning faster, without some astronomical event, it is because of the shifting of mass. To speed up the Earth's rotation, that mass has to be shifting closer to the axis. Is this a coincidence that climate change is causing the Earth to expand, yet other forces are moving mass close to the center?

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  11. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 436
    Likes: 59, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Here are some possibilities...

    The Earth is spinning faster now than at any time in the past half century
    ....The speed of the Earth's rotation varies constantly because of the complex motion of its molten core, oceans and atmosphere, as well as the effect of celestial bodies such as the Moon.

    The friction of the tides and the change in distance between the Earth and the Moon all make for daily variations in the speed the planet rotates on its axis.

    Even the snow building up on mountains and melting in the summer can shift the rotation.

    Global warming will also have an effect by melting ice and snow at higher elevations, causing the Earth to spin faster, although only by a small amount.​

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Why Does The Spinning Earth Speed Up If The Tides Are Slowing Us Down?
    ...The solid core formed only between 1 and 1.5 billion years ago, and continues to grow, as the portion of the outer core that touches the inner core slowly solidifies over time. Inside the Earth, then, the center is becoming more dense and stable, as more and more of the mass gets concentrated towards Earth’s center. This is a big deal for the rotation of the Earth, because if there’s more of Earth’s mass moving from the outskirts towards the center, then its moment of inertia, just like a spinning figure skater, is decreasing...

    ....how Earth’s mass is distributed is going to change the rate of rotation. Overwhelmingly, these rearrangements fall into two categories.
    1. Subterranean rearrangements, which usually occur during events like earthquakes, and tend to speed up Earth’s rotation slightly but noticeably.
    2. Surface rearrangements, where material that was typically at one point at a higher elevation on Earth falls down to be at a lower point.
    ...The Antarctic ice sheet, for example, is the largest single mass of ice on Earth, which contains 30 million cubic kilometers of ice: about 30 quadrillion tons of material. It’s located, on average, at an elevation of between 8000 and 9000 feet (2400-2700 meters) above sea level. Every time some of that ice melts or calves into the ocean, it not only causes sea levels to rise, it redistributes Earth’s mass so that it’s closer to the central rotational axis....​

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Speeding Up Earth
    ...Chao estimates that over 2 quadrillion gallons of water that would otherwise be spread evenly in oceans are in reservoirs, lowering sea levels by more than an inch....

    Most of the reservoirs are in the Northern Hemisphere, he says, so there has been a net shift of water northward, away from the equator-- and thus closer to Earth’s axis. That makes the planet spin faster, just as figure skaters spin faster when they pull their arms in. The mass shift has also made the North Pole move about two feet toward 130°W longitude-- essentially because the planet is being tipped the other way by a concentration of reservoirs in the Eastern Hemisphere, mostly in Asia. Both effects, Chao says, are probably even greater than he has estimated; the reservoirs he studied hold less than half the water dammed by humans.​

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    When a day is not a day | NASA
    Too much to summarize
     
  12. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 945
    Likes: 438, Points: 63
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Isn't that the opposite of what happens? Polar mass is closer to the axis.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  13. ImaginaryNumber
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 436
    Likes: 59, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: USA

    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    I don't have enough knowledge of physics to know.

    A change in mass from poles to equator slows the rate of spin.

    But a change in mass from high altitude to low altitude increases the rate of spin.
     
  14. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 1,746
    Likes: 130, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 851
    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    A figure skater in a spin, spins faster when the draw their arms in close to their body.
     

  15. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 945
    Likes: 438, Points: 63
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    This is only true when that change in altitude brings the mass closer to the axis. This would occur at or near the Equator, but changing altitude near the poles doesn't move mass much towards our away from the axis. In fact, losing ice mass from the altitudes near the poles would have the effect of redistributing the mass towards the equator, which would effectively shift mass away from the axis of rotation and this slow down rotation. In other words, Global Warming should cause a slowing of rotation, not a speeding up.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.