Is the ocean broken?

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by daiquiri, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    China bans squid catch in some overseas waters with overfishing in spotlight

    Haha, I like the headline above from Beijing, the reality being they were banned.

    "There are also humanitarian concerns relating to China’s fishing industry.

    Conservation group Global Fishing Watch found that North Korean fishers have been displaced, as Chinese vessels operating in North Korean waters have hauled in massive amounts of squid, which was North Korea’s third largest export until it was blocked by US sanctions, imposed because of Pyongyang’s nuclear weapons programme.

    A report by the group published in July, using analysis of tracking data and satellite imagery, estimated more than 900 China fishing vessels trawled for squid in the sea between North Korea and Russia in 2017, and over 700 in 2018.

    These ships, which can include legally operated ships and illegal ones, were estimated to have hauled in 101,300 tonnes of squid worth US$275 million in 2017 and 62,800 tonnes of squid worth US$171 million in 2018. This was roughly equal to what Japan and South Korea combined would catch from all their surrounding seas, the report said.

    Vietnam airs video of Chinese ship sinking fishing boat in South China Sea
    16 Jun 2014
    upload_2020-8-5_12-56-20.png [​IMG]

    Nothing like this had been seen before, according to Jaeyoon Park, senior data scientist at Global Fishing Watch. “It’s a really enormous group of vessels,” Park said.

    “The presence of this foreign fleet also has severe consequences for North Korean small-scale fishermen, who can’t compete,” the report said. Those smaller vessels often went further out to sea and met tragedy, as seen in a phenomenon known as “ghost boats”.

    Between 2014 and 2018, 505 North Korean “ghost boats” washed ashore on Japanese coasts, some of them containing human remains of fishers who had died from starvation as they were driven further afield to find fish, using boats not equipped for deepwater travel, according to the report.

    “It’s not simply about conservation and protection of the environment,” Park said. “It represents a serious humanitarian problem.” "



    China squid trawlers face temporary ban amid overfishing backlash https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3096038/china-bans-squid-catch-some-overseas-waters-overfishing


    Look at the ship back at the turn, running a smokescreen for the fleet.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. A II
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    A II no senior member → youtu.be/oNjQXmoxiQ8 → I wish

    I don't have the slightest idea that those photos are not composed.
     
  3. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    We drove past the "Towers of Power" last winter. Even from a distance of a few miles they were the brightest objects I've ever seen excepting the sun and an electric arc welder. Those may be the only such solar power systems in the US. I doubt that any more like them will be built. In the same complex they now have a large flat plate array. I suspect they are the photovoltaic panels that "everyone" is now using.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
  4. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Yes, there are certainly many reasons why corals are under stress, including human-caused pollution, mechanical damage from anchoring and inquisitive tourists, dynamite and cyanide fishing techniques, etc. But to have an estimated 50% of all coral reefs having died in the last three decades suggests a more general world-wide systemic problem.

    The hot geothermal areas located at the mid-ocean ridges are generally in very deep water. While there are a few coral species living at these very localized hot spots, the vast majority of corals are in shallow waters, far from active geothermal sources. I believe you are mistaken in suggesting "that temperature isn't the reason coral reefs are dying," and I don't think that the sources you posted suggest otherwise.
     
  5. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    https://www.to-hawaii.com/troubles/hawaiian-coral-reef.php
    "Stretching for more than 1200 miles (2000 km) in the Central Pacific, Hawaiian coral reefs account for about 85 percent of all coral reefs in the United States."

    How hot is a Hawaiian volcano? https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-hot-a-hawaiian-volcano?qt-news_science_products=0#qt-news_science_products
    "
    • The eruption temperature of Kīlauea lava is about 1,170 degrees Celsius (2,140 degrees Fahrenheit).
    • The temperature of the lava in the tubes is about 1,250 degrees Celsius (2,200 degrees Fahrenheit).
    • The tube system of episode 53 (Pu'u O'o eruption) carried lava for 10 kilometers (6 miles) from the vent to the sea. The tubes contained the heat so efficiently that the lava was still a sizzling 1,140 degrees Celsius (2,085 degrees Fahrenheit) when it reached the ocean."
    You are suggesting that coral reefs are sensitive enough to ocean temperature changes, that a few degrees in the global average over decades is the reason coral reefs are suffering, when here is a solid example of a system with greater localized fluctuations due to enough volcanic activity that whole island chains are formed, yet 85% of the USA's coral reefs developed and flourished in that environment.
    I'm sorry, I wan't to join you in your concern, but the above article about the health and future of Hawaii's coral reefs talks about a number of reasons for concern, but rising temperatures wasn't one of them.

    Man made problems abound, there is no doubt in my mind. We need to do something. We are probably responsible for some of the global and ocean temperature fluctuations. It just doesn't make sense to me that that particular problem is what's plaguing the world's coral reefs.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  6. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Ah! So good to see the fur fly! Welcome i
    Your post about Red Sea corals was optimistic. :)
    Will Dragonflys points are well taken.
    Hoyt's too!
    I would like all but likes aren't possible.
     
  7. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Your reference is from a tourism web site. I prefer more scientific sources such as the Hawaiian Department of Land and Natural Resources. They mention a number of human sources of stress to local coral reefs, including increased water temperature due to global warming.

    Potential Threats to Hawaii’s Reefs
    Coral Bleaching
    Coral Bleaching Reef corals contain symbiotic, single-celled algae (zooxanthellae) that provide over 90% of a coralís energy. Coral bleaching is defined as either the loss of symbiotic zooxanthellae or the loss of the photosynthetic pigments from individual zooxanthellae. This results in an energy drain on the coral that can lead to reductions in growth and reproduction and possibly death. Although coral bleaching can occur in response to stresses such as changes in salinity, light or irradiance, mass bleaching events are usually associated with increased sea surface temperatures (SST).

    In 1997-98, mass bleaching occurred on reefs throughout the world due to increased sea surface temperatures associated with an El Nino event where an estimated 16% of the worldís coral reefs were lost (Wilkinson et al., 1998). Severe bleaching can result in the loss of live coral and a general decline in the integrity of coral reef ecosystems. It is predicted that the impacts of global climate change will result in more frequent and extensive bleaching episodes (Hoegh-Guldberg, 1999). Hawaii’s coral reefs were not affected in the 1998 mass-bleaching event but coral bleaching has occurred in both the main and northwestern Hawaiian Islands on other occasions.

    The first large-scale coral bleaching event in Hawaii occurred predominantly in Kaneohe Bay in 1996. In addition, a mass-bleaching event, also due to increased SST [sea surface temperature], was documented in the northwestern Hawaiian Islands (NWHI) in 2002 and 2004. Jokiel and Brown (2004) found that the sea surface temperatures in Hawaii have been steadily increasing over the past several decades and predict that if the warming trend continues, bleaching events will continue to occur in Hawaii with increasing frequency and severity.

    Yes, many "stationary" ocean inhabitants (like corals) are sensitive to what seems to us humans like minor temperature changes. That may be because the ocean doesn't change temperature much throughout a season. So critters have never had to adapt to big temperature changes.

    The age of the oldest of the main islands, western-most Kauai, is about 5 million years. The age of those furthest west of the island chain (now long eroded and submerged) is over 65 million years old. The only active volcanic action on the island chain is on the eastern-most island of Hawaii, and on the still-underwater volcano east of the big island of Hawaii.

    The growth of all these islands due to volcanic action is very slow by coral growth standards, and the heat released each year into the surrounding oceans by volcanic action is negligible. Whatever heat is dumped into the ocean from volcanic action is soon diluted and swept away by the prevailing ocean currents. You will notice from my quote above that one of the bleaching events mention was on the "northwestern Hawaiian Islands (NWHI) in 2002 and 2004". The northwestern islands are the furthest away from current active volcanic heat sources, which is from the southeast-most island.

    By the way, the Hawaiian islands are not part of the "ring of fire", but are located over a magma plume or hot spot. As the plate the islands are on slowly moves over the plume volcanic activity subsides over its current location (presently the island of Hawaii), and starts making what will become another island further to the east -- presently called the Loihi Seamount.

    List of volcanoes in the Hawaiian–Emperor seamount chain

    Loihi Seamount: The Next Volcanic Island in the Hawaiian Chain
     
  8. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Doesn't that seem to support my assertion?

    I mean... you posted the first statement that suggested coral wasn't so temperature sensitive as previously thought. I was merely agreeing and added my own logical thinking to support it. I'm not offering a citation because I'm not arguing with an appeal to authority. Ithought it would be fairly self-evident that volcanic activity can raise local ocean temperatures. Maybe not. They apparently have a cooling effect on global temperatures, so could that offer an answer to the problem?
    [​IMG]
    Kull ash plume in Iceland stopped air traffic in the UK.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  9. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Yes, more volcanos are the solution. Sure. Nothing cools things off like a little ice age.
     
  10. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    2030 is coming to a neighborhood near you.
     
  11. A II
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ the Netherlands

    A II no senior member → youtu.be/oNjQXmoxiQ8 → I wish

    Or maybe even a big one, the current state of science is so poor that scientist can't even look a month ahead for big earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, and their consequences for world wide climate...

    Eg. the 1883 eruption of the Krakatoa in Indonesia (small on a scale of what ever happened on earth) was later seen in Oslo Norway and painted there by Edvard Munch, it caused world wide climate change by a natural event, which examples I was repeatedly asked for on another thread by people who can't or won't understand the limitations of the current state of science, they're deniers of natural events even bigger than anthropogenic global warming . . :rolleyes:

    — 1883 eruption of the Krakatoa in Indonesia —
    [​IMG]
    (large)

    — as seen and painted in Oslo Norway —
    [​IMG]
    (large)

    Original title by Munch ‘‘The Scream of Nature’’ now usually shortened to ‘‘The Scream’’
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  12. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    like
     
  13. A II
    Joined: Jun 2020
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ the Netherlands

    A II no senior member → youtu.be/oNjQXmoxiQ8 → I wish

    I've enlarged the last sentence of your quote of post #56 a bit Yob, and named Munch's original title of his painting of the event at the bottom of the post.
     
  14. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020

  15. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    We have been anticipating the now overdue eruption of Yellowstone for some time.
     
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