Is the ocean broken?

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by daiquiri, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    It isn't the fact of production that such statements are about. It makes it sound as though people are being lead around by a few sinister characters who force the people to consume. Are the leaders of industry controlling the population? Are we just helpless and ineffectual dried leaves blowing around at the whim of immoral masterminds? Do we get to relieve ourselves of the responsibility for our own actions by blaming the devilish Captain's of Industry? Do we want to? What sort of picture of ourselves does that paint? We are sheep, dandelion seeds with no free will and no responsibility for what we are deceived into doing. If the super rich are villainous, we all are. They are people, no different than any other people except in the circumstances of their lives. We don't just allow it, we support them, even elevate them. They give us what we want, we give them what they want and they represent possibilities, goals, even hope for the rest of us.

    What would you do if you controlled 3M, for example? Would you close it down, donate all the infrastructure to some diverse group of corruption-free charities and give away your fortune along with the livelihood of thousands? Would you tell your board that the company is going to only produce environmentally and economically responsible products in a Carbon-free, environmental impact-free way, reducing profits drastically as well as sales and letting the less ethical competition fill the hole, gain more profits and attract all the investors away from your company? Or, would you feel the pride as well as the responsibility of being an industry leader and continue working towards staying on top of market control?

    Wouldn't you become more interested in maintaining the profits of your company, the status of your position at the top? How many people in this world are better than that? How many of us would sacrifice that wealth and the wealth of others to do "the right thing"? These people are just people.

    The fact that production is the reason for human contribution of carbon in the atmosphere isn't the point of the statement IN made. The statement was a jealous appeal to emotion intended to move people against other people. It was an ad hominid that had no substance to the AGW argument.

    I respect ImaginaryNumber as smart and passionate and truly concerned for this world, but that statement was not what he should be about.

    -Will
     
  2. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    What do you think? Increased seismic activity caused by climate change or climate affected by increased seismic activity? Or, unrelated and merely a coincidence?

    -Will
     
  3. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    I agree with much of what Will has said, especially the above. <laugh> I agree that all of us who burn fossil fuels or eat meat, etc, bear some responsibility for our current situation. The piece that I posted on rich people fueling climate change was a provocative opinion piece, not science. I do think that industry leaders could, if they chose, be much more influential and effective in altering their industry to be more "green." However, in the competitive, capitalistic environment that we live in, it probably isn't realistic to expect a particular company to voluntarily give up its profits to become more "green" while the rest of the companies that it competes against keep on profitably polluting -- as was explained in an earlier post.

    I think governments are the entities best positioned to encourage countries, and the world, to take the "medicine" we. need. Government will likely need to use many methods to do so, including the "stick", like carbon taxes, as well as "carrots," like supporting research for potentially innovative technology.
     
  4. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    ‘A huge moment’: U.S. gives go-ahead for its first major offshore wind farm
    • The Department of the Interior has granted Vineyard Wind approval to install up to 84 turbines off Massachusetts
    • Vineyard Wind will generate 800 megawatts
    • If all goes to plan, it could enter into service in 2023
    • The Departments of Energy, Interior and Commerce said they wanted offshore wind capacity to hit 30 gigawatts by 2030
     
  5. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Fly on the Wall - Miss ddt yet?

    When they remake Planet of the Apes, instead of a half-buried Statue of Liberty, they will show a rusted out, toppled over wind farm along the coast of Taxxachusetts.
     
  6. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Last edited: May 13, 2021
  7. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has released its Congressionally mandated quadrennial report on Climate Change.

    The Earth's climate is changing.
    Observations from around the world show the widespread effects of increasing greenhouse gas concentrations on Earth’s climate. For example:

    • High temperature extremes, droughts, and heavy precipitation events are becoming more frequent and intense.
    • Glaciers and snow cover are shrinking, and sea ice is retreating.
    • Seas are warming, rising, and becoming more acidic, and marine species are moving to new locations in colder waters.
    • Flooding is becoming more frequent along the U.S. coastline.
    • Growing seasons are lengthening, and areas burned by wildfire are growing.

    These and many other changes are evidence of a warming world.

    Frequent Questions about Climate Change Indicators

    National Climate Assessment

    About EPA's Indicators

    Greenhouse Gas Summary
    Weather and Climate Summary
    Oceans Summary
    Snow and Ice Summary
    Health and Society Summary
    Ecosystems Summary
     
  8. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Fly on the Wall - Miss ddt yet?

    Political lackeys write what politicians want to read. That's how they survive.
     
  9. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Again, climate changing is normal and historically demonstrable continuous from ancient times. The notion this change exists is somehow evidence man causes climate change is totally unscientific, illogical, undemonstrable, and a constant fraudulent rant of AGW panic mongers. You can't correlate an imagined cause based on an observation of an epoch long term effect. What is.provable, is there are too many other more probable factors outweighing a man made or greenhouse gasses from any source as the dominant cause of climate change. Your rant proves you can fool some of the people all the time. Those who believe in a universe from nothing, beginning without any cause or creator, will believe any illogical silly cause that appeals to their hypocritical leader's warped world view.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  10. Dejay
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    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Since my previous rant meant to scare some sense into people got deleted, I'll post this much more reasonable and well sourced article:

    All the Bunnies in the Meadow Die

    The article is from 2012. This thread started in 2013. And we still can't have a reasonable discussion about the effects of climate change on the ocean, boating and marine architecture.
     
  11. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Climate change will ultimately cost humanity $100,000 per ton of carbon, scientists estimate
    • Economists estimate of the societal cost of releasing carbon dioxide into the atmosphere seldom go beyond the year 2100
    • But climate change, due to burning carbon, will last hundreds of thousands of years
    • Because climate change will persist for a thousand times longer than accounted, the cost will be a thousand times greater as well
    • They estimate the ultimate cost of carbon to humanity to be closer to $100,000 per ton of carbon—a thousand times higher than the $100 or less generally calculated
    The research was published in the journal Climactic Change
     
  12. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Fly on the Wall - Miss ddt yet?

    Real scientists or charlatans? Estimate = guess and so far they aren't good guessers.
     
  13. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Climate change is science. Human-caused climate change or AGW is pure politics fraudulently claiming science supports their rants.. May have to escape in my boat if the ghouls win.
     
  14. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Where does the $100,000/ton go? Does the money leave Earth in exchange for the heat that doesn't? Someone is going to reap the monetary rewards of all that money.

    -Will
     

  15. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    I assume it is either lost due to a reduction in productivity, or is paid to workers who are solving a problem that didn't have to be solved in better times. In other words there is an increased cost of "doing business." These are some of the problems that will either have to be solved, at increased expense, or not solved, causing a loss of productivity.
    • Tropical pests and diseases moving to higher latitudes
    • Construction of expensive seawalls, or abandoned coastal properties
    • Loss of coral reefs, which are fish nurseries and which provide storm surge protection
    • Fish stocks moving or disappearing
    • Changes in precipitation patterns: too much, too little, too late, too early
    • Decrease of winter sports industry
    • Civil unrest in areas that can no longer support the current populace
    • Civil unrest because of influx of unwanted climate migrants
    • More frequent wildfires
    • Increase in hurricane intensity
    • etc, etc
     
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