Interaction between hull and transom-hung rudders

Discussion in 'Hydrodynamics and Aerodynamics' started by erdben, Nov 27, 2016.

  1. Erwan
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    Erwan Senior Member

    Erdeben,

    Your Induced Drag seems alright , check if you need to consider Oswald coefficient.

    I think it is appropriate to start with the righting moment and a polar point (boat speed, True wind speed, and True wind angle.
    You get apparent wind velocity and angle
    then you can project forces on the apparent wind direction for lift and drag

    For the lift coef I use the Von MISES proxy:

    Effective Cl(3D)= Cl(2D)(1+2/AR) with CL(2D) = Cl with infinite AR = Cl from XFOIL

    the effective Cl(3D)is the lift coefficient corrected with AR

    Hope it can help

    Cheers
     
  2. Erwan
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    Location: France

    Erwan Senior Member

    Sorry for my poor English, What does Weather Helm means Please
     
  3. erdben
    Joined: Nov 2016
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    erdben Junior Member

    Thanks Erwan. I'm not a native English speaker either, so I may not have used the term correctly, but by weather helm, I meant the angle of the rudder to the mid-line necessary to keep the boat from rounding up into the wind.

    Generally, it is recommended that the rig is balanced so that you have about 3 degrees angle on the rudder when sailing upwind so that the rudder and the keel shares the lift properly.

    I can't really set my boat up that way even though I already sail with a pretty noticeable mast rake. I found a vague statement in an article stating that on boats that sail with a lot of leeway upwind, the optimum weather helm or angle on the rudder is smaller. I don't know if it's just empirical evidence or if there are some calculations that show how the leeway angle affects keel and rudder lift balance. Maybe with more leeway, the centerboard or keel has a smaller effect on the flow that reaches the rudder?

    It's also possible that I have a hard time getting the boat balanced, because not only the lateral area got reduced from the boats original daggerboard version, but now the centerboard is also positioned further aft as seen from the previously attached pic. Anyway, it's still a lot of fun to sail that boat, I just enjoy learning more about aero-hydrodynamics.
     
  4. Erwan
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    Erwan Senior Member

    the more boat leeway, the more angle for both the keel & rudder, that is probably why boat with a lot of leeway have a smaller rudder angle (weather helm).
     
  5. Tom.151
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: New England, USA

    Tom.151 Senior Member

    Bill Gibbs did some neat stuff with rudders. He was kind enough to share. Attached is one of the 'testing' versions. By placing a pivot point on the dagger case you can get the rotation moved aft easiy (relative term ;) )

    With that accomplished, you can have a simpler blade profile.

    Though the addition of a fence at the bottom of the case just below w/l -and- fairing the bottom of the case abobe the fence, still sounds v.good idea
     

    Attached Files:


  6. erdben
    Joined: Nov 2016
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    erdben Junior Member

    Very interesting, thanks!
     
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