Insurance - the elephant in the room.

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by rogerf, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. aussiebushman
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Taralga NSW

    aussiebushman Innovator

    Good to see this thread. I had not tried to insure my Tri but was considering doing so and the warning about the Ponzi scheme is welcome. Actually because a swing mooring was not available in the area I obtained a foreand aft mooring instead- not that it would overcome the Insurance racketeers demand for marina locations.

    The fore and aft arrangement is very difficult due to high winds- getting off is OK but getting back on can be a nightmare in a limited space. Fortunately, there is a nice little sandy beach close by so in an emergency that is where it would go until the wind drops. The three extra layers of glass on the bottom more than justifies being slightly overweight.

    Glad I no longer sail on Sydney harbour where disasters are almost inevitable due to the power boats, ferries, cargo ships but most all the mannerless racing types who give way to no one.
     

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  2. pbmaise
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: Cebu the Philippines

    pbmaise Senior Member

    I own a big trimaran. 65ft by 40 ft. For starters I have learned to anchor about 1.5 miles from shore, AND, keep a trained crew member on board 24/7 with an anchor alarm. Simply put, a squall, any good size squall will cause my boat to drag. It doesn't matter if I have 300 feet of chain and a heavy anchor in just 10 feet of water. I still drag if the harbor is muddy.

    Usually I am safe and secure tired to dock. However, I am currently at a marina, where as is usually the case, they have no room for me. I don't even fit in the entrance.

    It took a lot of experimenting to solve this one. I'm in a narrow channel where the flow reverses twice a day. Anchor only was no good. Then I tried anchor and one mooring line to a piling on shore. That worked as long a the current remained the same. When the current shifted it was a problem. Next I tried two mooring lines to shore and all the anchor in the channel. Worked fine for a while. I learned the problem was one mooring line was always tight. When the ferries went by, they sent a very short period high wave set. This caused the boat to work it's way towards shore. One mooring line always was tight with no play.

    I solved this problem by placing a small anchor midway along the mooring line. Now there is a good play available for the boat to pull this anchor up and down. The net result is I haven't moved an inch. This gave me confidence to get off the boat during good weather. HOWEVER, if it looks like a storm is coming in, I am back on board.

    Insurance companies I consulted wouldn't even give me a ballpark figure unless I first gave them a full survey.

    I finally got one insurance company to agree to an in-water survey. However, I asked them for a copy of the policy. It read:

    The boat must be adequately crewed.

    I'm no dummy in this game. I rang them up. What does adequately mean for a 65 ft trimaran? Their answer was 4. On board there must be 4 sailors at all times with certification.

    After hearing that I realized there would be little chance they would pay out, unless I recruited and paid for 3 full time certified crew members.

    Bummer. I"m not insured.

    Does anyone here have a ballpark figure?

    Perhaps it is 1% replacement cost per year (Ouch that would be $20,000 a year for me)
    Or is it some % of agreed value?
     
  3. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    The standard anchor technique for reversing current scenarios such as a channel between islands is the Bahamian Moor.. Two anchors ...one into the flood, one into the ebb. Use chain only..no rope rode. It works but is prone to anchor chain twist. It would be better to find a secure anchorage.

    A crew is limited by working hours...3 crew for 24 hours.
     
  4. pbmaise
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: Cebu the Philippines

    pbmaise Senior Member

    More thoughts on insurance issue

    Overall, the state of insurance for sailboats is one that has me pretty bothered. I think largely, it is the fault of the insurance companies themselves.

    Let me give you an example. At the King's Cup in Thailand one year a squall came up when most boaters were partying on shore. Every multi-hull ended up on the beach. This isn't funny to me. I bet many of these owners made large claims with insurance companies to fix their boats.

    It is my view, these owners were entirely at fault. They were anchored too close to shore. This was so they could conveniently get to the bar. Additional people have commented that some owners may have only had a racing anchor out to save weight. All owners obviously didn't have a trained crew member on board to take the boat to deeper water.

    When the Lagoon 500 sank in Thailand a few years ago it was entirely the fault of the captain. Again huge insurance payout.

    Big payouts like these on expensive boats obviously drives insurance costs.

    What to do about it? Perhaps we should start our own insurance company.
     
  5. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    When you start your own insurance company..DONT INSURE MULTIHULLS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  6. OldNick
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: Perth, Western Australia

    OldNick Junior Member

    Just to put my oar in here, I am trying to insure a Haines (Farrier) Trailer Tramp: 20' day sailer. No dice. I even tried to insure it just on the trailer: theft and road accident etc. But no, "they had no class for the boat" and so would not even do that.

    It's just ridiculous. Suddenly they actually have to PAY something and they sulk and refuse to insure.
     
  7. OldNick
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: Perth, Western Australia

    OldNick Junior Member

    Any thoughts on this company?

    Platinum Marine and Transit Insurance specifically say they insure trimarans. I have placed a query with them regarding my little toy and I will see what comes out. But I was wondering if anyone had dealt with them (made a claim!)

    Thanks for any input.
     
  8. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    Out of interest most of the Golden Oldies Multihulls are insured with AXA in France. Could be an avenue of last resort I can get more details if required.
     
  9. OldNick
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: Perth, Western Australia

    OldNick Junior Member

    Well I guess we need to know what "golden oldies" are....
     
  10. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Ok dumb question time,
    I hate insurance, I think it's a racket.
    It irks me that schools and city councils are being held to ransom by insurers insisting on this and that merely to feather their own nests, rant, rant.
    So, why as boat owners is insurance such a big issue ?
    It almost seems like you "have to" have it. Why ?
     
  11. OldNick
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: Perth, Western Australia

    OldNick Junior Member

    Interesting. In an age that is increasingly litigious and combative, we have insurance companies turning away income because they fear the outcome. They have always held the upper hand (we have to fight for payout), but they are not only imposing stricter and stricter "rules" but now they are refusing their "core service", based on the fact that a CERTAIN SEGMENT MAY be high risk. This is in spite of the fact that the high risk group is a growing, high profile, lucrative group with lots of money. Now I, as an owner of a cheap trailer tri, do not want to be treated as rich, do feel that I am [part of a an unfairly banned source of income.

    Apart from which these ******** need to take the bad with the good. They do alright.
     
  12. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Look at the biggest buildings in any capitol city, insurance.

    Now that governments legislate that certain segments "have to" have insurance it's money for jam and they call the shots.
    People have lost sight of the personal accountability concept.
    Rant rant. I hate it. Such a monumental scam !
     
  13. OldNick
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: Perth, Western Australia

    OldNick Junior Member

    I sounded off without answering...but it's still about fear....

    OK For me in this words, I want 3rd party coverage. These days you can be up for millions (watch put for LEGAL FEES) because you bruised somebody's ankle.
     
  14. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    They are mostly older ocean racing trimarans that still get raced seriously so would qualify for a risk profile by the standards of our insurers that is vastly unacceptable.

    http://www.goldenoldies.biz/gomenglishpage.html
     

  15. OldNick
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: Perth, Western Australia

    OldNick Junior Member

    Thanks for that. It seems wrong that all tris should be tarred with the same brush......
     
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