instead of smash with big ice-breaker, how about saw and remove ice?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Squidly-Diddly, Oct 3, 2020.

  1. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

  2. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    OK, maybe a big ex-fishing boat that is "ice rated" but not an Ice Breaker. Might be good source of donor vessels because sometimes Fish Regs change and all of the sudden a whole bunch of boats are worthless.

    But the central theme of this whole concept is moving ice out of the way WITHOUT needed a super-strong hull to do it with brute force.
     
  3. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    Now, that may be a good idea because more and more fishing fleets are moving north above the Arctic Circle during summer.
     
  4. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    two Russian companies announced an agreement earlier this year, to build the world’s most powerful nuclear icebreaker, the first step in a bold new Arctic strategy Moscow hopes will drive open lucrative new shipping routes, and allow Russia to assert itself more forcefully in the High North. see story about the Healy Crippled Icebreaker Healy To Get Complex Rebuild; Huge Engine Heads To Panama Canal https://breakingdefense.com/2020/10/crippled-icebreaker-healy-to-get-complex-rebuild-huge-engine-heads-to-panama-canal/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%2010.08.20&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Military%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief
     
  5. DogCavalry
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    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Squiddly Diddly, you have the restlest mind of a science fiction writer, and I mean that as the highest praise.
     
  6. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I'm also wondering if the blocks could be placed along the new created path in some way at to help keep the path from refreezing as quickly. Say you got a path through 6ft ice that is 40ft wide. How would it affect the re-freeze if the blocks were 10ft wide and double stacked and refroze to the underside of the field on each side to create 10ft wide by 12ft deep additional ice? What I'd be HOPING for would be some sort of convection or water motion that would bring warmer lower water welling up into the path to prevent rapid re-freeze. If there is slight ocean current under the ice maybe one side of path would have ice shoved under and the other side ice would be placed on top, or whatever works. Maybe instead of leaving a path full of broken ice that rapidly refreezes with big jumbled chunks that I'd guess has the next ice breaker looking for a virgin field, maybe create longer lasting paths that would then only need maintenance.
    I remember a book when I was a kid about "Snow Stumpers" Snow Stumpers 1968 Hardcover Book Vintage Old School Education Reading | eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/Snow-Stumpers-1968-Hardcover-Book-Vintage-Old-School-Education-Reading/323552459178 with all these odd patterns of melting/collecting snow and ice and the weird reasons behind them.
     
  7. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I think you should follow your own advice. Buoyancy is an upwards vertical force caused by displacing a fluid. The ratio of buoyancy to weight determines whether an object floats or not.
     
  8. tspeer
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    tspeer Senior Member

    You are right. Look at the bow shape of those Russian icebreakers and you'll see the shallow slope of the forefoot that allows it to ride up onto the ice.
     
    brendan gardam likes this.
  9. fredrosse
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    fredrosse USACE Steam

    "I believe it is because the reactors are raw water cooled and they cannot navigate through the tropics without overheating."

    In fact, Nuclear powered vessels would not have any problem cooling the reactor while operating in the tropics due to their being raw water cooled. The Nuclear ships are steamships, and propulsion turbine exhaust steam is condensed to liquid water, using a seawater cooled surface condenser. In warmer sea water, the turbine exhaust pressure rises somewhat, causing only a few percentage points loss of plant efficiency. In the extreme case, if turbine exhaust pressure rises to a technical limit, then a moderate reduction in reactor power might be required, again only some percentage points, however nothing like a 50% reduction in propulsive power.

    As many here know, a displacement ship can make about 80% speed with only 50% power, so this "overheating" issue is not going to prohibit operation in the tropics. On the other hand, if the icebreaker is only equipped to heat the crew spaces, without air conditioning, then it could be very uncomfortable for passengers and crew if operating in the tropics. Perhaps they would have to adopt a schedule of "port outbound, starboard home".
     
  10. Clarkey
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    Clarkey Senior Member

    It is just something I have read in multiple places - it may come from a single. erroneous, source or there may be something to it, difficult to track down anything definitive.
     
  11. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Is the claim that the Navy can't operate its nuclear powered ships in the tropics? Sounds like nonsense.
     
  12. Clarkey
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    Clarkey Senior Member

    No, it specifically relates to the Russian 'Arktika' class nuclear icebreakers such as 'Yamal'.
     
  13. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    There is no cooling problem. The reactor has at least 2 separate primary cooling circuits each capable of cooling the reactor by itself, plus emergency cooling circuits. Even if the heat exchangers were dimensioned for 12°C sea water temperature there is enough cooling capacity between them to go into tropical waters.
     
  14. brendan gardam
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    brendan gardam Senior Member

    If you have read this can you find the articles and post a couple of them for us to read. Thanks.
     

  15. Clarkey
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    Clarkey Senior Member

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