inspired by rash of failures, Merkel proposes an "EU aircraft carrier"

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Squidly-Diddly, Mar 19, 2019.

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  1. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I donno, man. While its good to HEAR from lots of voices when designing and operating something like an aircraft carrier, seems like the last thing you'd want is design (and operation) "by a committee".
    First big squabble will be who's fighter jets. Seems to me, that will decide who really owns the carrier, but clearly Germany is the only nation in EU with funds to pay for something like a new carrier, and Germany doesn't make any carrier fighters, and so far no one has even mentioned attempting a carrier capable Eurofighter. I guess the Eurofighter and Airbus "group project" works but that is where everyone gets their own finished products. One ship with multiple captains (or captainettes) seems problematic.

    Anyway, this has weird political desperation written all over it. EU is breaking up so lets start a massive multi-year group project that can only become source of 1001 disputes.

    Wouldn't English need to be the common language of an EU Carrier?, but UK is leaving EU, so the whole thing will need to be ESL. So automatically various groups are going to default revert to their native language among themselves (or god forbid something "happens") or at minimum start complaining and blaming others for their lack of English skills.

    Maybe I'll dust off my plans to modify a French Minstrel-class helicopter-carrier into a proper catapult fixed-wing escort-carrier (since the French are currently holding two of those they decided not to sell to Russia). At least (hopefully) with Germans running the show it wont be one of those lame ski-jump horrors. The uncompleted WW2 Nazi carrier had catapults for propeller airplanes.

    I still think there is room for an super-tanker/air-craft carrier (Tank-Air-Rier? lol) or TAR for short.

    Take your basic super-tanker and re-distribute the crew's quarters and what not that sits at the rear to various spots under the new modular Post&Panel flight deck installed over the existing deck and all those pipes. Make the flight deck high enough to create a hanger deck. Have about 4 separate hangers/elevators more or less at 4 corners. Cut big hatches in a few of the crude oil tanks and install a rack system for storing and retrieving Con-Tex boxes when tanks are empty or at least not full.

    I don't see those mods adding too much to cost of super-tanker. Its mostly levering the advantage of huge size. Super-tankers FULL OF OIL have hit full size mines and basically nothing happens except they write-off some cargo. IIRC it was described as "a Cadillac hitting a speed bump". They don't even change plans except for scheduling some welding when they get around to it.

    Who would want such a vessel? Anyone who's economy depends on importing or exporting oil, and wants to be able to protect that themselves. Also maybe a ruler of an oil involved nation with a big ego that wants the (military AND personal) status of an aircraft carrier. Or anyone already operating carriers that could add an extra flight deck for cheap. Don't send your $15 billion dollar carrier into enemy missile range, instead send an empty water ballasted super-tanker with some aircraft on deck into harms way to soak up some hits for cheap . For low cost you could make a super-tanker not just standard double-hull, but "onion-hull" with an extra layer of tank walls for inner and outer tanks, thus your inner (buoyancy) tanks could be protected by several layers of 1" steel AND maybe a layer of water of unprecedented thickness (maybe 50ft?).




    Angela Merkel backs plan for EU aircraft carrier

    Angela Merkel has voiced support for some major aspects of CDU leader Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer's EU vision. The proposals include a joint European aircraft carrier and a permanent EU seat on the Security Council.

    Angela Merkel backs plan for EU aircraft carrier | DW | 11.03.2019 https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-backs-plan-for-eu-aircraft-carrier/a-47860895

    The strange case of a ‘European aircraft carrier' https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/03/11/the-strange-case-of-a-european-aircraft-carrier/
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  2. Heimfried
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    Heimfried Senior Member

    Hmm, is this really a topic of "Boat Design"?

    Do you know what this means?
     
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  3. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    The thing is about the politics of banding together.

    If I had to guess, this makes you a Russian troll SD!

    Just kidding, but almost no matter what, the political undertones are trouble for the board and I suggest the moderator act early to quash any such notion the EU would succeed on such a collaboration by closing the thread like a lawyer objecting 'calls for speculation'.

    Oh my.

    Where would such a beast hail from?
     
  4. Dejay
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    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Yeah this topic could get political and escalate fast! :)

    But that project is just a huge and idiotic waste of money imho and no way the European peoples will support it. Who can Europe bully with an aircraft carrier anyways?
    And a drone-carrier would make more sense, the future is clearly autonomous drones both in the air and under the sea, and technology for factories to churn out lots of them when / if needed.
     
  5. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    'idiotic waste of money' until you watch Russian destroyers sailing by German ports.

    Then it seems mandatory.

    And this is why it is trouble.
     
  6. Dejay
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    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Ah, Putin is just trolling :) But seriously, like I said. Make drones, not warships.

    How hard would it be to develop autonomous long range torpedoes? They could just float there just below the surface stealthily on standby like a smart mine until activated. I have no clue of course about countermeasures, sensors, communications and power systems for such drones. But I do know the software side and that is certainly possible.

    How many torpedo drones would you need to sink an aircraft carrier?
    How many drones or rockets could you build instead of a warship?

    I'd argue that with increasing level of technology it becomes harder and harder to amour or defend expensive strategic assets, so you'd want the technology to mass produce cheap weapons at multiple locations to destroy the enemy. So wasting your resources on one big expensive thing is a surefire way to loose the war of attrition.

    I'm all for investing into advanced warfare technology and weapon production capabilities for defense purposes. That's much cheaper and easier than attacking. And anyways, a war between the big powers with nukes is really unthinkable.
     
  7. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Not as far as I see/read.
    Just political posturing dressed as "boat related"...
     
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  8. JamesG123
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    JamesG123 Senior Member

    An aircraft carrier is for projecting force beyond territorial waters. For coastal defense and even fleet action, anti-ship missiles and submarines are much more effective.

    This is just political posturing at both Putin and Trump. Merkel isn't even running for re-election so this is just her talkin' scheisse. But if the Europeans want to step up and finally start paying there fair share of NATO and global security, then by all means...
     
  9. Tiny Turnip
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    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    Members of my family worked for a company on such a torpedo 35 years ago. It would sit quiet until it heard the acoustic signature of the vessel to which it had been programmed; then it would lock on.
     
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  10. JamesG123
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    JamesG123 Senior Member

    The "mine" becomes a "torpedo" again.
     
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