"Inspired" by gas prices...

Discussion in 'Gas Engines' started by die_dunkelheit, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    powerabout Senior Member

    how fast can the best type of tree (for doing just that) absorb carbon in tonnes?

    I do remember in both of those biosphere experiments years ago they lost control of the co2 and had to chop stuff down and store it without releasing any co2 to try to maintain an atmosphere.
     
  2. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    I seem to remember they had issues with isolating the interior of the structure. But I didn't follow that experiment very closely. Pretty sure its some kinda amusement park at this point or something like that. ;-)

    I'm not sure about what tree is best, probably one that grows fastest. like Willow or Poplar, thing is though that BTU pr ton also play a part. So given that the any fuel developed from a biological process thats less than the life span of CO2 in the system could be considered carbon neutral. Pretty much anything less than 100 years, although arguments could be made for up to 1/2 million years, and down to about 5. Its a very soft definition. But all in all, the younger the feedstock, the better.
     
  3. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    even at 12% steam engine would be still cheaper to run on coal than a 50% T.E. diesel-then add 27% to the equation..theres no debate --plus the costs of set-up for steam is considerably less---i can buy a 18 hp steam engine equivelent to a 200 hp diesel in power--for 2700.00 u.s. the diesel new about 30 000 and up...add that to the high costs of running it..and btw your example of 50% seems a bit high. and even if it is 50% efficient-- there would be few other propulsion systems that efficient so thats like 1% of the world fleet that has that kind of efficiency add to the mega costs of sucha system vs steam and the the few hundred thousand saved buys a lot of coal!...:)
     
  4. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    Boston i work for Peter Carlich--he is top notch and his engines are the most advanced available using updated spool valves for reverse operation-Rasmussen--the designer was ahead of his time and Peter knows his stuff...
    highly recommend -that 40 hp- 4 cyl single acting is the bomb! u can even use car pistons- or a VW block.
     
  5. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    I've been looking at there stuff for years, if you go back and check some of my early posts concerning going steam it was there engines that had convinced me it was a worthy study.

    Basically I'm concerned about weight. If I add the steam engine + boiler + peripherals + fuel load I kept coming up heavier than a diesel. Although it was close. That and the diesel is push button and steamer kept warning me that the boilers require constant attention.

    I'm a one man show so requiring the little lady to go bellow and do much other than what she does best was kinda asking for trouble. I make my own fuel so a diesel is relatively cheap for me, except the up front cost. If I could modify the fuel I'm making to run in an oil fired boiler, it might work, but I'd think it would smoke like a *****. Kinda defeats the purpose of going green. I'd love to play with a pellet fired boiler tho. Seems like they make home units for heating, I might be able to modify one to work under a boiler. No clue as I've never tried it. Still dialing in the truck. Pyrometer is on the way, pulse timing conversion kit is next. After that its a power chip and adjusting the transmission to the best power band. ( I hate electronic transmissions )

    its all cosmetics after that.

    Cheers
    B

    I'd be really curious to hear your take on using two small steam engines in a power cat

    [​IMG]
     
  6. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    Boston --Just a couple points on that if i may?

    --if you can make cheap diesel or other types of fuels--this is wonderful..you can go diesel or u can go steam( using an atomizer-blower etc.) as long as your assured of getting a unlimited supply of fuel...
    which is the advantage of wood. or pellets, garbage etc. etc.

    actually I am doing the exact thing in my tug- two engines off one boiler--this is the beauty of steam for me at least. the thing about my tug is that it has so much reserve bouyancy that a huge boiler won't drop it down too much it prolly will need ballast anyway-but the wood/solid fuel is in play there-helps with the ballast. so a water ballast system might be good for my tug.

    ...now your boat, might be more sensitive--(its a nice design too btw!) I like the cat idea for twin steam engines personally.

    just a word about boilers which you probably already know and that is if your going marine steam, use a fire tube--its true watertubes require constant attention--but they are meant for these small fantail steam yachts where you sit by them all the time and slowly feed wood into them ...on bigger boats where you are single handed- firetubes are the way to go

    the reason for this is they hold more water- more steam, and for longer and steadily at that...so its a bit of a myth that you have to tend to it all the time--about every 20 -30 mins. depending on the size of the boiler. this should give you plenty of time between stokings.
    I am also singlehanded..so for me-i dont see it as big issue epsecially if you can rig up some spool valves or morse controls for FNR. but yes you will be going to the boiler more than just running a diesel...

    if you have enough reserve bouyancy in your cat hulls--remember the boiler will sit over the LCB. (if im correct on that?) so stowage for fuel will be an issue but - nothing is perfect...
    in the end--for me--i love the idea--in fact you dont need a huge boiler --
    but it also heats you in winter--it is nice smelling other than diesel, it really feels wholesome to run a steam engine in my opinion in my limited use of them..and they are fascinating to me...they run fairly quiet although a steel hull will amplify the sound of the pistons almost to the noise of a small diesel..maybe more--but you can adjust the mounts to make it less noisy easy enough.
    The nice thing about diesels of course is the push button start and your on your way...no waiting..and in a storm, you can get out of a sticky situation quicker. while your boat is gathering steam heading towards some rocks- the diesel is outta probs. still with modern nav equipment these days youll known the storm is coming...
    what are the size of your hulls??..whats the displacment on each hull??


    charcoal is cheap and a great option too for weight concerns and it stores a LOT of energy for its weight. those briquettes can be bought by the pallet for peanuts...if your going to travel across an ocean- yea you will initially sit below the plimsols, but after a few days you will be lighter.
    my guess is-for your boat--(i dont know the details i.e. loa beam etc.) but for a 30 ft light semidisplacement cat--i dought you need more than 2 hp per side --5 hp tops! each ama.
    so the formula is- 40 000 btu's per hp/ per hour
    thats running full tilt--but to cruise you only need half that. so unless your towing something or are in beaufort 8--you can get by with less wieght for fuel...

    gear it 1:1 you should get good speed even.

    diesel of course -well its faster, and you save space. easier to fuel up-
    ...i say --the weight once underway for a day--will bring your lines back up...

    anyway you know me--im a steam guy..but i get tempted too by the ease of diesel...my concern is --and maybe im just paranoid--but what if there is no fuel to run my boat when its done?..if in steam--i can still get free wood...
     
  7. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    powerabout Senior Member

    can find a bit of info on trees and carbon, many sites repeating an average tree ( whats that) will absorb 1 tonne of carbon in 100 years so I guess we can work out how many trees you need to offset your boat trips....ouch!
     
  8. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    trees absorb carbon yea--but dont store that carbon or give it off like fossil fuels...trees are nature's filters...your next step should be to see what those 1000 sites tell you a tree DOES with all that carbon
    ouch!
     
  9. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    You dont need all that any more. I saw the other day this guy that had put a big stick in the middle of the boat and tied some sheets to it. The wind just blew him along nicely.

    With a bit of work you could fine tune that into some serious propulsion, absulutely free.

    Did any one else see this? massive potential here instead of burning trees.

    For us-- moving about on the water is just for fun burning trees is very so not green and inappropriate.
     
  10. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: Melbourne/Singapore/Italy

    powerabout Senior Member

    Now that governments have wind farms you are using their wind so expect a tax soon on sailing
     
  11. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    by fire tube do you mean mono tube ?
     
  12. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    No--inner tube
     
  13. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    aren't you supposed to be at a strip club right about this time of night ? ;-)
     
  14. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    oh and Tug, if I went with steam, the 18`~40 hp 4's, what kinda machining costs can I expect per engine ?
     

  15. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member


    Certainly not --its 11 am,---I just got back from there.
     
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