Inner Keele replacment on a 39 ft Pacemaker

Help and a hello I am starting a semi large project of replacing my inner keel .

I have been advised by my surveyor that my replacement will not have to be notched out for all the ribs, I was told I can shorten the ribs slightly and leave a small space for the water to migrate to the back of the boat.

Has this been done before?
Any recommendations ?

Thanks Dave

 

Bremner,
Sounds like a hinge lurking to pounce on your garboard, could you perhaps tie the port and starboard ribs together with a plywood connector? On second thought, I think I'd better defer to PAR or someone else with more experience in these matters.

Yokebutt.

 

I'm not a big fan of pockets or notched areas on structural members. These are areas that collect junk, which plug up any weep holes or gaps present, preventing water draining to the low point on the hull. This type of construction also promotes rot in the pockets or notches. Typically the low point is not aft, but more midship on most hull shapes. On your hull the low point will be surprisingly far forward.

Is your surveyor registered or a boat yard guy providing you with some tips and pointers? Most reputable surveyors are familiar with the type of boat they are looking at and do make reasonable recommendations for upgrades, repair and maintenance.

It's been a while since I've been in the bilge of a late 60's Pacemaker, but If I remember the frames aren't attached to the keel, just lie on top. They are attached to the two (or four if running twins) big hunks of lumber running fore and aft which hold up the engines(s), the stringers and sheer clamp. I also don't remember an inner keel, but easily could be wrong. What I do remember is the flatter, aft areas have the frames lie on top of the keel, then they run through a notched keelson starting around midship, then landing in a pocket, formed by a cheek piece attached on each side of the keel in the forward areas, before the stem/gripe joint.

I'm not sure of the area your surveyor suggested the frames be cut short, but the only location, I can remember, this can be done would be in the pocketed frames in the very forward areas of the hull. I wouldn't, because the frames ends would then be able to work (move) with any planking deflections and surly would spit out her fasteners pretty quickly. Do you have pictures that you could post?

 

Thanks !! My surveyor indicated this is the same design as a Chris Craft where the frames are stubbed out just before the kelson plank.
In my case the 2'inch Kelson plank, is notched out where the ribs sit they are approximately 1inch into the kelson plank the full length of the boat, they just sit inside not attached.
As an option I could run a oak piece just on top of the ribs the length of the boat to prevent any shifting????

The way it sits there would be no way to take the kelson out without cutting the ribs.

I 'am about to take the front Garboard plank off this weekend. so I can see how they are tied in.

More to come or suggestions

 

Now I understand your arrangement a little better. On Chris Crafts, they used a "cheek" piece that was notched and fit over the ribs. This cheek piece provides bearing surface for the garboard to land, in addition to the rabbit. Usually there is a screw through the garboard, at the seam, through the frame and into the cheek piece. This ties the garboard and rib to the cheek, which itself is screwed to the keel or keelson, depending on location.

This is major surgery and I don't recommend it be done by an amateur. The keelson provides a great deal of the strength to the forward areas of the hull. It's removal will require a lot of planning and careful thought on the effects it will have on the hull shape when it's removed. Shoring is usually installed inside and extra support is provide outside the hull.

Jack her up and let her dry a bit, then yank the garboard on one side to have a look see. Typically you'll find other issues, upon close inspection, such as frame heels in those pockets having rot in them, cheeks that also do, an indication on the condition of the fasteners, etc.

 

Thanks, I have my garboard off on the port side. From the stem I have 9 new ribs that are fine then there is about 10-15 that are certainly questionable. to the transom
the Kelson looks OK forward however mid ship she feels week. I Have frames every other rib on 8-9" centers. In the aft I know I require new ribs and frames and kelson

I would still like to pursue the idea of a modification to the frames and remove 1' ' from each frame from the kelson.

If I sister a small piece on all the existing frames to strengthen the frames on the kelson and cheeked a piece were there is no frame would that work ?

This is defiantly a weakness in the Pacemakes and knowing this, to make it the same would be a shame.
\Thanks Dave