Infusion Q&A

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by jim lee, Dec 17, 2009.

  1. wadeed
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: egypt

    wadeed Junior Member

    many boat companies who went out of business in 70s and 80s have no copyrights and saves money to use their hulls as plugs
    using bottom hull and redesigning lifting strakes and transom as i am a fan of setback of outboard transoms
     
  2. wadeed
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 51
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    Location: egypt

    wadeed Junior Member

    accordingly then no one should build v bottom hulls as only one who started v hulls is one who can build them;)
     
  3. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    keep it simple !!!

    Older hulls are just that old so with some carefull thought and mods . older hull are a good starting point but a lot has changed and introducing a plumb bow could baffle the people saying it a ?#@*^ what ever copy . I personaly like wally plumb bows and the high fore foot to go with it . Looks fast even when its not even moving !!. Its the rear 2/3rds of any hull that carry weight and spends 9/10 of its life in the water so just redesign a front 1/3 and stitch the two together ,why splash ? just make ripples instead !!:D
     
  4. wadeed
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: egypt

    wadeed Junior Member

    ok will ripple
     
  5. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Good !dont up set thems that think thay can make a fast buck from your missfortunes !! there are some nice old hulls about and used to preform quite well but with a little cut and tuck and a strake or two with a new bow they could be even better been there done alittle of that myself !!
    Know any boat designers??
    Just need some quicklines from someone with a keen eye for the new and modern look . feed the exsisting lines into a computer and he can do in a couple of hours what would take days with pencil and paper . even a university student thats a wizz with CAD , hes really only filling in the blank bits and you can lean over his shoulder while hes doing it If you have a computer you can keep it all in house . just dont leave him along for longer tha a minute !! its about how quick it can be copied .
    Its what i do at my work with the young designer that knows very little about boat design but is becoming keener by the day .Take care and cover you tail !!
    :eek:

    .
     
  6. wadeed
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: egypt

    wadeed Junior Member

    been in boating since 60s with my dad we built our first wooden dingy powered by the noisy outboard seagull = swimmed faster than it:D
    dont know designers but i do know how to design boats from experience and trial and error
    :)
     
  7. wadeed
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 51
    Likes: 1, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 27
    Location: egypt

    wadeed Junior Member

    copyright covers boat companies which closed down like fiber form-sun runner-sea ox or models which are no longer produced from bertram and wellcraft and donz ?i
     
  8. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    We sound two of a kind !! first boat i had anything to do with my dad bought a kit set from a department store ! was only 12 foot long , open boat but wasnt long before it had a box on top . Had a little ausin 7 motor in it and for what it was thinking back went really well . when i started work 1959 i bought plywood and timber with my first pay packet and started building my own boat from the design i had done of a model i had built while at school i loved the hot boat magazine and saw what was availible in the usa so wanted to copy a small SK boat i saw . had a vee drive and a ford 10 motor hotted up and lot a modifications of my own .and most people couldnt believe it could go as fast as it did for what it was . went skiing just about every day and a little fishing now and then !
    That was my beginings . I had to wait till 1972 to get into fibreglassing making the Herrischoff 28 foot yacht . The company was the leading yacht manufacure in the whole of Austrilasia at that time . My life moved rapidly for the next 15 yeras and i worked lots places to learn and pick up as many skills and know how as i could !.
    With a young family wasnt easy to move out of the country but we went to tahiti 1984 and that was my introduction to working outside new zealand . from then on the ball of progress really stared to roll . now i am way past the time when most of my friends have died or pushing the grocery cart following there wives round the super market and saying yes dear no dear of sitttin sipping tea and wondering when the good life starts !!
    For me it never going to happen , i have no intention of letting the grass grow under my feet and have a young girlfiriend that findsit pretty hard to follow in my shadow and keep up .
    Have 4 sons, one is a absolute fishing, diving ,boating, person , the older one is in the airforce and used to make and sell really up market deep sea fishing gear and everything that goes with that ,loves fishing and jas been making his own boat for longer than i can remember when he started ! You name it hes made it including some rods of his own made from graphite and epoxy . The other two from a differant wife are not nterested in anything so they follow in mothers foot steps .
    That a part of the reason im here in china to get away from that life style and re-discover where i went wrong .
    Korea was a challenge 2007/8/9 i was given a set of plans after a 1 hour meeting with the designer and a plane ticket went home packed my bag and 3 days later went !.
    The project was already 3 months behind schedual before i walked off the plane but i was convinced that as long as we didnt make any mistakes it could happen on time and with lots of pushing it did . 7 days a week 16 to 18 hours a day ,week in and week out and gradually we clawed our way to a safer place on the calender with just 2 weeks to get boats in the water fully finished and rigged and a week for sailing shake down before the 2008 first ever South Korean International Boat show .
    Unfortunately the Chinese havent go the drive and get up and go the Koreans had and after 2 years of treading water things are about to change again in my life ,finding another place to stamp my feet and creat a dust cloud .
    that me ! a nut in a shell :D
     
  9. wadeed
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 51
    Likes: 1, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 27
    Location: egypt

    wadeed Junior Member

    me i played in boats with my dad since i was a kid we used to repair our outboard in our garage and i water ski and sailing since i was in teens then when i went in business since 1978 i imported boats and outboards and was going to be partner with danish boat builder but he passed away and closed down and started to learn about building boats and then i started with making a mold from a old fiberform and redesigned it completely and worked on old hulls i found in egypt for companies who closed as plugs and made new boats and designs from them and built wood boats and used them as plugs:cool:
     
  10. yves
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 59
    Likes: 1, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 29
    Location: paris

    yves Junior Member

    Infusion and one offs, possibilities ?

    Hello all, newbie here ... with some experience in sailing (mostly windsurfing and cruise boats, a bit of sail boats racing) and construction (but only windsurfing boards), so below a question regarding one offs boats construction and infusion, what are the possibilities ?
    You always need to build a perfect air tight plug one way or another ?

    For instance below construction of a one off built with a female plug :
    http://webfastnet.free.fr/diaporama/index_monocoque2008.htm
    also here for the infusion :
    http://numawan.wordpress.com/2007/1...la-coque-the-layering-of-the-hull-2/#more-235
    and :
    http://numawan.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/linfusion-de-la-coque-the-infusion-of-the-hull-2/

    So I understand that the plug is made of thin plywood (on stations) then thinly laminated and covered in some demolding product ?

    Must be really expensive for a one off, no ? Is it a common method ?

    On the other hand, would it have been possible to use infusion with below construction method ? :
    http://souqueablochaka122.blogspot.fr/p/la-construction.html

    That is the foam placed on "stations guides" (sorry don't know all technical terms in English, or even French ;) )

    I guess not, is that right ?
    (or only for the interior skin ?)

    What are the most usual methods for using infusion for one offs boats construction ?

    Also how much do you gain on average (in resin used/weight) compared to classical methods ?
     
  11. Fram
    Joined: Nov 2004
    Posts: 23
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    Location: The Netherlands

    Fram Junior Member

    No plug/mold needed.

    Have a look at www.fram.nl

    infusion right on the foam.
     
  12. yves
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 59
    Likes: 1, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 29
    Location: paris

    yves Junior Member

    Thanks a lot for you reply Fram, didn't look at your site in details yet , but looks like a great project and a great boat !
    (btw for some reason i cannot see the videos, must be some issue with the wmv plugin for mac, direct links to files would work)

    But so I understand you build the floats and main hull in halfs, with the foam placed on stations ?

    So then how do you insure air tightness ? You bag the whole piece ?

    Is it correct to say it woudn't be possible in below case ? :
    http://souqueablochaka122.blogspot.fr/p/la-construction.html
     
  13. Fram
    Joined: Nov 2004
    Posts: 23
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    Location: The Netherlands

    Fram Junior Member

    The foam is airtight so the only thing you have to do is to be sure that you make airtight joins between the strips/sheets and don't puncture the foam with too long screws.

    Minimize the joins as much as possible. Using for and aft strips will be a challenge to get airtight I guess.

    This method should also work with a male form as in your link to the mono builder.

    Maybe Herman will chime in. He would say apply a thin glass layer first to ensure airtightness.
     
  14. yves
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 59
    Likes: 1, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 29
    Location: paris

    yves Junior Member

    Thanks, and found your vids on youtube, really impressive (and what a great looking boat, thinking of a 36 now :) ).

    Is it true to say that infusion can also save some fairing job, or not at all ?
     

  15. Fram
    Joined: Nov 2004
    Posts: 23
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 25
    Location: The Netherlands

    Fram Junior Member

    Yes and no. The glass overlaps are much more compressed than without vacuum, so you will save on fairing compound. But fairing is a lot of work and most of this is in the last 500 gram
     
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