Infusion Q&A

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by jim lee, Dec 17, 2009.

  1. magnus
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: minnetonka minnesota usa

    magnus Junior Member

    Sorry for the late response to this thread, but as a newer member it is a part time job just catching up.

    Andrew is exactly right in my experience with Jeffco resin. I reduce vacuum to 20" then clamp the resin line. Maintain 20" for 4-5 hours at elevated temperatures and you have a part. It sounds easy right? Wrong, if you go their your eyeballs will be sucked out of your head. OK, thats only true if you inadvertently wrapped tacky tape around your neck, so be careful.
     
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  2. jiggerpro
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    jiggerpro Senior Member

    Hi Magnus, I understood that you are making fishing outriggers out of klevlar and carbon, maybe to sell them, well I would find it interesting to see them do you have a web site or maybe can post here some pics of your job ..
     
  3. magnus
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    magnus Junior Member

    02-15-2011 12;10;43PM.JPG I have made use of small outrigger molds which I built years ago for open molding to practice resin-infusion; lots of hours but little material loss. I am scaling up to do the 18-foot main hull at this time. I do not expect problems with the infusion; scaling up has got to be easier than working inside a 50mm and less hull/mold width. It is more an issue of space; moving large molds around a limited work space and building a large low temperature oven.

    This is not a design I plan to stick with but I have the molds so I will infuse at least one hull to see if I have scale up problems. If it goes well I will start a plug for a sit-in hull (I am thinking 12" beam at waterline instead of my current 8") . I want it to be paddle friendly for sure but with the option of adding my bow facing rowing device.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2011
  4. magnus
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    magnus Junior Member

    Jigg,

    Impressive work site, I am in envy. I finally had time to catch up with the end of this thread. Duratec surfacing primer is the final finish to use on a plug. I am paying $67.00/gallon locally and would pay more. My only complaint is shelf life; polyester products go bad fast, epoxy lasts forever;) Seriously I used to finish rough plugs with Gel coat with wax added; it would still fill my sandpaper, would orange peel and was hard as a rock to sand and polish. Duratec orangepeels for me a little but not bad, it sands like a dream, it polishes great. I wonder about its durability but I have used it for short run tooling with good results. It will go off in the can as fast or faster than other polyesters in my experience, so do not let it sit around.

    Your operation looks expensive, I would pay an expert: Herman or someone local to get things right. If you think you have a market for this craft it is worth getting it right. Ten years down the road you may be glad you did.

    Jim
     
  5. jiggerpro
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    jiggerpro Senior Member

    Hi, Magnus;

    Thanks for your kind words, I wish Herman was closer but the reality is he is not, he is in Holland and our shop in the Canary Islands, he is not easily tempted, not even by our nice weather but we will keep a close contact with him along the way and after seeing the impressive supplying possibilities his company has, we will purchase from him most of our products.

    In regards to Duratec, and after a painful experience with Crystic Glosscoat ( very prone to producing fish eyes) I would be extremely reluctant to use any polyester based product if it can be avoided just to get a shiny styrene resistant surface to which tooling gel coat can be applied, and yes I know Duratec fits the bill, but not only I believe is absurdely expensive, regardless of the price I would gladly accept a more friendly alternative if I can find it.

    And we believe we are getting closer, please take a look at some of our semifinished surfaces none of them are duratec.
     

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  6. magnus
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    magnus Junior Member

    Jigg,

    I can see the hours you have put in.

    My typical plugs start with wood stations then wood strips or panels then maybe a layer of glass coth to firm it up and sandable lightweight polyester filler. Then lots of sanding and filler and sanding. This is where I like Duratec because once your plug is close you spray 10-50 mils, sand it and polish it and you have one color and one consistant surface to work the minor imperfections out. If an area needs further work simply roughen the surface, spray and rework it, masking the rest off. If you paint your putting down a few mils and the prep work has to be immaculate which is difficult with a combination of materials present in the finished surface (in my case wood, glass and filler).

    So I would say if you have many materials in your almost finished plug surface; with different sanding characteristics, different colors, diferent feel (touch is critical for me to get a surface fair) then Duratec is helpful.

    At this point I believe I may have secured a Sales Rep position at Hawkeye Industries. Seriously, the only product I have used is their Polyester Surfacing Primer and am curious about their other products; any experience out their. A spray in the mold top-coat to replace gel-coat would be swell.
     
  7. jiggerpro
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    jiggerpro Senior Member

    Hi magnus, the grey product is a Polyurethane based spray filler ( RM Basic Filler) the previous processes being just like yours, the product is easily sandable and polishable to a quite good shine, much more user friendly ( it lasts a long time once mixed, it cures fast after applied, less smelly, less sticky) and much cheaper than the polyester stuff, no doubts about Duratec being a good product, but a t the price of a high price tag plus a short once mixed time, what we have to test now is the perfect behaviour in regards to releasability and in general final results. I will post here the results of our testing once done.
     
  8. War Whoop
    Joined: Jun 2003
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    War Whoop Senior Member

    Duratec is the standard of the industry,Geltime? We never had a problem using MEK as the reducer,The plug work was always glassed 100% before the fairing and the polyester putties are about cheap as it gets,duratec grey primer was used and sanded until your face appears.
     
  9. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    Duratec has a high price for three reasons, one, it works very well, two the volume sold is so low compared to other polyester products like gel coat or resin that the cost per gallon skyrockets, three it works very. OK that's only two reasons, but it works so well this needs to be counted twice. There were other companies that had similar products, but when you divided the market between them it was too small for anybody keep making it. The bigger companies left the market which helped the Duratec line a great deal.

    Since you use so little of it, and since it works so well, even at the higher cost you can save time and money using it.
     
  10. magnus
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    magnus Junior Member

    I agree, I do try not to purchase much more than I will use in a few months. I sure have learned to like epoxy for its long shelf life.

    I have no experience with this product, but it sounds good.

    I agree, way easier to see what you are doing during final polishing with grey than with the black or white options.
     
  11. brokensheer
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: So. Md

    brokensheer Senior Member

    I have a long mold

    I have a drain rail mold I use to build hatch frames for one off's it is 8' long and 6" wide, the glass schedule is one pcs of 8" 1708 tape I lay it along the mold fold it around a pcs of foam that measures 3/8" x 3/8" then back over itself so it realy has two layers of 1708the foam form a finished edge for the hatch frame opening, the other end is fastened and faired to the deck. my question is how who I run the supply line and vacuum line. the drawning is almost what I have except the edge showing the three diff little green lines is where the foam is and my mold has an outer removable fence
     

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  12. jiggerpro
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    jiggerpro Senior Member

    Hi Magnus and Ondavr and Herman; regardless of how good Duratec may be, I sure you will agree that the results achieved with HermanĀ“s suggestion of Polyurethane paint are truly good and with little offensive fumes and a loooong loong time to work once mixed with its catalyzer here are our results, which IMHO are piano like or class A :
     

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  13. magnus
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    magnus Junior Member

    Jigg,

    It is working, I would not change a thing.
     
  14. War Whoop
    Joined: Jun 2003
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    Location: Sunny Ft Lauderdale Fla

    War Whoop Senior Member

    Duratec Grey primer on a 41 foot plug.


    [​IMG]
     

  15. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Herman Senior Member

    It is just what you can get, and can get used to. Many things seem to work.

    Just came back from a 60 ft motoryacht plug, also in black PU paint, shiny like crazy.
     
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