Infusion Plan

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by jorgepease, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Hi, I am building a small flats boat and am about ready to infuse. This is my first infusion, I will do a couple of practice infusions first on flat panels. I am hoping to get some advice on vac and resin line placement for hull - ie: Fishbone with resin lines around flange feeding up to center (keel) or in reverse, or a progressive pull with resin lines in parallel to each other ... the hull sides are at largest are only 12", length is 22' and beam is at greatest just under 8'.

    I will be using SV Prime20 Infusion Resin and I have two Welch pumps 17cfm and 5 cfm. I am using the corecell as one side of the bag, the dark lines are epoxy filler in channels I routed. Thanks very much for your opinion

    Here are a couple of images -
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. rawleyjerel@yah
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    rawleyjerel@yah Junior Member

    hello resin lines should be no greater than 15 inches apart i would say to run one down the center and one parallel on either side 15 inches apart up to your flange.as for vacuum line one on the flange all the way around should do it for you. when your resin line reaches the flange turn down vac pressure to 10 inches as to not suck all your resin out. i have some issues with the pictures you posted i dont see a sufficient flange to allow for proper infusion, you need roughly 8 inches to apply your vac lines as well as to attach the end of your bag to. if you have further questions feel free to email me at rawleyjerel@yahoo.com
     
  3. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    The flange is not installed yet. The flange will be perpendicular to the side. Ok I will allow 8 inches for hoses. Do you see any problem with pulling down instead of pulling up, I read that could cause problems with resin racing... I have to check on on the minimum vacuum these pumps can run at ... I think that is below the minimum
     
  4. rawleyjerel@yah
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    rawleyjerel@yah Junior Member

    do you have pressure pots? if so you can regulate vac pressure by the pots. under a vacuum there is no gravity so it doesnt matter you can infuse down up or upside down. i also recommend a break in your shade cloth about half way to your flange to allow the backside to catch up with the front. resin doesnt travel thru evenly
     
  5. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    There is no gravity in a vacuum? What makes you think that?
     
  6. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    LOL, I think what he meant was the resin will flow up but Im worried about the reverse scenario if I pull down the sides, though it's only 12" ...
     
  7. AndrewK
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    AndrewK Senior Member

    I would do same as rawleyjerel, vacuum at the flanges parallel feeds starting at the centre line.
    Asume you are doing one side at a time? lots of waste and expense when a simple hand lamination would do. How important is the weight saving to you?
    As you are not pulling down onto a solid surface you will get some destortion unless you have no bridging in the bag film at all which is hard to do. But this should be only minor.
     
  8. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Yes, it's more expensive but I can't see myself applying 4 layers of glass alone (and do a good job) especially since I have zero experience working with fiberglass. Also I want to learn how to do this.

    Would you infuse strakes at the same time or later?

    Thanks for your help.
     
  9. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Am I understanding correctly - Red lines are resin Blue Vacuum (Not To Scale)
    [​IMG]
     
  10. rawleyjerel@yah
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    rawleyjerel@yah Junior Member

    ye correct the vac lines are made using tie wire spun on a spindle creating a spring, then stretched out and wrapped with a six inch wide 1208 at least thats how i make them. this leaves a nice two inch wide lip for you to attach it to your flange. to lay fiberglass you need to cut to length and then roll it up then you take a can of super 77 spray glue and lightly coat the first 19 inches of the glass, stick it down to the edge and work out all lumps and wrinkles by hand or bottom edge of metal can,then lightly spray what you can see of the roll and roll it out and work out the lumps and wrinkles again continue this until you have layed out the entire piece of fiberglass hen laying out your glass remember to stagger your seems and only overlap the fray on the edges, and also keep in mind that if you use too much glue it will not allow the resin to saturate the glass, to defeat this after lighly spraying the glue allow the air to hit it for a few seconds as super77 gets stickier as it dries the glue is to keep the glass in place and nothing more and as you are infusing a level surface you should use even less glue. hope this helps you and good luck, keep meticulous notes when doing your test panels note time of travel of resin and gel times and also remember if the resin shoots up to the next feeder too fast you should try a break in the shade cloth or mesh to slow this down and allow things to catch up.
     
  11. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Great advice!! Thank you! I will do a couple of flat panels to get the hang of it before doing the hull.
     
  12. AndrewK
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    AndrewK Senior Member

    Hand laminating with a long gel time epoxy would be easy enough even for a first timer and just as worth while skill to have as is infusion.
    Make it simple and do the strakes later as this would add to the bridging in the bag film. Gravity is doing all the work for you so spray glue is not required.
    When positioning the first layer of glass cloth put a sheet of plastic on the bare foam first so that you can slide the cloth around, when correct pull the plastic out.
    You should only require 3 resin feed lines but you have to determine this by trials with the resin transfer medium you are going to use.
    Also you do not need the vacuum lines at the ends, can have them there but at least break the line up into sections so that you can isolate the ends at least.
    I would go a step further and break the long side vacuum lines into 3 sections as well. This way when the ends are infused you can isolate the vacuum to these sections while waiting for the midd section to complete. After when infusion is all finished you open up these vacuum lines again.
     
  13. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Ok thanks for those tips. I am definitely going to get some practice with hand layup, the strakes and a pocket tunnel which I don't have the guts to do in the infusion and then all the interior bulkheads and supports ...

    I like the idea of breaking up the vacuum lines, sort of like steering the resin front. Im a little paranoid of sucking up too much epoy, for one the cost and two I still haven't figured out my resin trap but looks like its going to have to be home grown pvc tube.

    I think I see why you say only 3 resin lines but that would mean pulling resin for about 22" between lines.

    A little further up Rawleyjerel mentioned to only overlap the fray on edges ... I was wondering - should I run a little extra glass onto the flange and then trim it later or should I try to get it exactly right with scissors when I lay it up?

    Thank you
     
  14. groper
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    groper Senior Member

    you must have absolutely zero leaks if you plan on infusing downhill... otherwise you will have a huge pool of resin as the bag gets slacker and slacker and could completely ruin the whole thing. This maybe (very likely) a problem when your using the foam as 1 side of the bag... you most likely have to skim coat the foam with thickened epoxy first, to make it vacuum tight and you need to check its sealed before laying everything up or you may be wasting your time.

    I would consider another option, pull the resin from the bottom edge upto the chine, then open a second pair of resin lines at the chines and pull it toward the center keel vacuum line/port.

    Cut your glass exact size, saves you cutting and making glass dust after its cured... you can leave the peel ply oversize no problem.
     

  15. rawleyjerel@yah
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    rawleyjerel@yah Junior Member

    even if you have a blood sack its on top of the peel ply making it no problem. ive infused a picknick table with no problems upside down infusions. and if your good with your leak detector youll have no problems.waiy a minute you plan on infusing with core as a bag??
     
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