If I could do a yawl conversion on my C-40...

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by souljour2000, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. souljour2000
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Having the mizzen stays identical to the lower main shrouds stays is a great idea Phil...one I shall keep in mind..
     
  2. souljour2000
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Good stuff to know..i haven't blown a shroud since I had a Hunter 20...about 3 years ago...I bought some ss steel clamps today..and they were only like 5/32..need some bigger ones but damn they are expensive..but highly re-usable...I don't yet have any ss wire rope to replace a blown main shroud on a boat the size I have now..something to seriously think about amidst a myriad of other things to seriously think about...My buddy's Irwin 32.5 cc got damaged pretty bad after anchor(s) failed and she got pushed onto a floating dock at bradenton beach during "Debby" and busted a couple shrouds like Phil said...dipping against a dock..right above the chainplates..."pop goes the weasel"....I am a "moor out" kind of guy but I realize from some of the comments that there is alot of "what ifs" I havent even thought of yet...all in time..
     
  3. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Phil,

    No question the majority of rigging failure is in the stays. I would guess that it is actually the lower shroud fitting to be honest, but I don't know that for sure. But when a rig falls, it is most likely a chainplate, not a shroud.

    Personally I would rather carry http://www.colligomarine.com/Colligo-Synthetic-Systems/Emergency-Shroud-Kits.htm aboard for an emergency stay than a wire, but horses for courses. I like synthetic shrouds, and would have no problem with them permanently but I that's a judgment call. But to get me back to a rigger, I would rather have something small, stowable, and immune to corrosion instead of a big roll of wire.

    I do like the idea of matching the shrouds though' that is a great idea.
     
  4. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Mizzens don't have stays usually, just single or double lower shrouds and a cap shroud. Most rigging failures are terminal related, commonly from neglect (corrosion, damage, age, etc.). It used to be fairly common (CCA style) to see a lower mizzen shroud plate also carry a Y or split back stay leg from the main. Not so much any more
     
  5. souljour2000
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    I like the idea of using dyneema, etc.for emergency shrouds Stumble...something to think about.. I do kinda worry about the fact that i don't have any regimen or have not developed a system of maintenance for taking care of the wire rope rigging...it seems most corrosion is indeed at the fittings and chainplates as you and PAR said...It (corrosion)certainly seems to be at it's worst in the shroud areas closest to the sea and salt..(the last 6-7 feet before the deck and chainplate/turnbuckle seems to be the most afflicted areas of the shrouds usually)
    There seem to be differing schools on the best method to clean or maintain them...Some espouse just light wire brush cleaning with soap and water..others use something like PB Blaster to lubricate them..but I doubt ti does much more than make them "sticky"...and more liable to accumulate dirt...Seems actually putting the shrouds under some strain so that the wires flex (in other words..actually going sailing once a month at least)and allow them the wires to move around a bit occasionally seems to be just as important as cleaning them lightly with a wire brush,etc,,on a regular basis...This may be because the flexing of the wire under strain pops out any little accumulations or pockets of corrosion you cant see...and frees up those little crevices of dirt where corrosion soon follows...Any thoughts?
     
  6. Surrymark
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    Surrymark New Member

    Worked for me

    I put a mizzen on my Cape Dory 27 and love it. Probably will do the same on a Sea Sprite 34 I am about to close on. I mounted a carbon fiber stick from Forte Carbon, unstayed. (Forte is very helpful). Had to split the backstay. I made a spruce boom and hoops for the sail. The mizzen is about as high as the spreaders. A friend kept asking if I had talked to a naval architect, so I did. He said, "looks fine to me; maybe put about 2" rake just to make it look visually plumb with the main."
     
  7. souljour2000
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Yawl conversion

    Well..glad to hear your happy with your experiments so far...I am still in love with the idea of a yawl...but doing actual conversion is a while off yet. I'd like the mizzen to be unstayed as well...I like the help upwind they afford...and the "jig and jigger" balance in strong winds one can get while only having a small storm jib and a small mizzen sail aloft... not to mention other aspects of this rigs utility..
     
  8. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Insurance company makes me pull the chainplates. They consider it a piece of standing rigging . Costs a fortune
     

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  9. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    A free standing mizzen is very doable, though not typical for your boat and the mule might not be possible, in all but light winds. You'd also need a symmetrical mast section for the little stick, if free standing.

    The mizzen will not help upwind, compared to the sloop, unless widely separated from the main (I don't think you have enough room, without moving the main). The typical location for a C-40's mizzen is at the very end of the cockpit, stepped on the sole (stayed). The main foot is usually cut down about a foot, maybe 18" at most, which doesn't leave a lot of "ventilation" room. In fact, you'll lose a little upwind, if you have to cut the main down to fit the mizzen. The mizzen is working in the back wind of the main upwind and is just a drag, along for the ride, offering little drive. Once the sheets are eased, the mizzen comes on, especially once you can hoist a mule.

    You could move the main mast forward about 20", so it falls in the V berth opening. This permits the same size main, slightly smaller fore triangle, a slightly bigger mizzen and mule too. This would have been the CCA race setup, but is a lot of convolution for a cruiser. You could also step the mizzen through the cockpit seat, which would move it aft about a foot. This would let the main stay in the same location, with the stock E dimension. As a free standing stick, this is a better "purchase", as you can tie into the aft deck.

    More stuff for your "wish list" . . .
     
  10. souljour2000
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Hi PAR..good to hear your thoughts...I didn't realize a stayed mizzen would have to be footed on the rearmost part of the cockpit sole..though you' mentioned the cutting off the boom...That is a lot of work...yeah...not to mention moving the keel-stepped main forward to save some boom length..Ouch! Good to hear an unstayed mizzen could be mounted on the sterncastle behind the cockpit though...Alas I am so far from conceiving such ancillary projects it is almost laughable.
    Right now I am looking at just getting her a bottom job at a DIY yard near Labelle right now..and removing old transducers and un-needed sea-cocks...her bottom is riddled with them...just saw one blister though when I cleaned her whole starboard side last month before the water cooled here..Then of course some epoxy barrier coats and whatever else I can do at $20/day which isn't bad really...Her chainplates seem fine ...they are quite thick...and have two crossplates..all glassed in..The rigging is good for a few years yet....But the rudder issue remains..the stuffing box needs re-done in drydock too ...as the backing plate is slipping a bit....

    I really cant keep her..there's too many projects I'm afraid...I may have to sell her soon...sadly..though she's making a fine liveaboard thus far ...the engine was no good... I have a extra longshaft outboard on her now...and while I could nurse her a few years this way..and enjoy her.. I would rather get her into better hands..she's really such a great old CCA battlewagon to use your earlier phrasing...I'm going to miss her terrribly...
     

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  11. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Cutting the boom isn't really that big a deal. I've seen in done to race the following day, with a newly stitched sail too. Of course a handful of half crazed sailors worked their butts off all night doing it.

    You don't have all that much to do to her to enjoy the old lass for several seasons. Patch 'er up, slap some paint on her and have some fun. 'Tiss a sin to part with a sweet thing ain't it.
     
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