Ideas and Guidance - Boat Improvement and Reconstruction

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by nemesis567, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. nemesis567
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Porto

    nemesis567 Junior Member

    First of all, hello to everyone, I'm new to this community as much as I'm new to boat building. So to make the story short:

    Me and a few friends got a boat, the unfortunately was beaten up pretty badly. It's ruined now and we'd like to work on it together to make a great boat out of it again(well, for the first time since it was never that great a boat before). We have the willpower but we lack the knowledge. But we're eager to learn and will do our best to explore and learn according to what you can advise us to do.

    24139076_1532615256773636_1059235463_o.jpg

    We have already done a bit of work that was absolutely needed like removing the bottom floor which was broken and a sponge like material that wasn't looking too good either.
    24116718_1532615966773565_1259548340_o.jpg
    Sponge material found in boat.
    We had to cut out the front seats in order to properly remove the floor bellow.
    24138902_1532615276773634_74199561_o.jpg 24139006_1532615796773582_2091446938_o.jpg
    24139172_1532616103440218_1839518947_o.jpg
    24197048_1532569156778246_1662434960_o (1).jpg
    We thought at first it'd be possible to split both sides(red and white) of the boat to ease the workflow but after removing a bit of the "fiber?" we concluded it was an impossible task.
    24139354_1532569083444920_1081649691_o.jpg
    We need to fix the affected areas.
    24138981_1532569036778258_689365730_o.jpg
    24140067_1532615596773602_1507928055_o.jpg
    We removed the old protection around the boat(don't know the name of that in english) and the boat's missing the windshield, which was some kind of plastic.
    24140198_1532615366773625_1748854508_o.jpg
    24167146_1532569096778252_808924607_o.jpg
    Other than that we'd like to add a few more personal things, maybe a cover in order to make some shade, a few storage spaces, a place to put the battery for the electric motor it'll run on, maybe an extra battery to add speakers, phone chargers, w.e., with maybe a solar panel. You get the idea, nothing's pretty solid now, we are welcoming any ideas.
    24116685_1532569056778256_1553213644_o.jpg
    24139188_1532568976778264_36485720_o.jpg

    We also have no experience working with fiberglass and we do not know the strengths of the resins used, neither do we know how to properly cure them. If it's important, daily temps range from 0ºC 18ºC around here. We'd like to keep the investment to a minimum, while making the best out of this boat.

    So, what should be our next step?

    I appreciate in advance your much valued assistance.



    -
     

    Attached Files:

  2. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 2,014
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    The boat is not seaworthy.

    I would not spend 10 cents on it.

    However, flip it upside down and use a screwdriver and check every 50mm square of the bottom and see if you find weakspots. Mark all weak areas with a colored marker and take another picture.

    A better website for boat repairs exists. Pm me and I will redirect you.
     
  3. nemesis567
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Porto

    nemesis567 Junior Member

    Don't know how to PM. This boat is meant for river use.
     
  4. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    Seaworthy is a generic term; means water. Boat is not safe to put in any water in current condition.
     
  5. nemesis567
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Porto

    nemesis567 Junior Member

    Yes, I agree with you. That's why it needs to be rebuilt. I'll do as you asked and will post the pictures of the hull in a few hours. I really appreciate your help. We do not mind working like hell for this to be ready and we do not mind investing a bit. All in all it's just meant to be our boat, we could buy one, but it is not the same thing! Two summers ago it hit the waters and it didn't sink(at least it didn't in a day or two, then it disappeared and appeared like you see it). Also can you PM me yourself please? I think I cannot send PMs due to being such a new member.
     
  6. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    Tried to pm you; wasn't allowed. The website you might get help is bateau.com. People get funny about boat repairs when people are really foolish and sawcut hull bottoms. And they should be. Some guy will fix it with a water soluble glue and end up dead. The seat might be a structural element; so removing it from the sides might have been a bad idea.

    Try bateau.com-they have a repair section. Not sure you'll get much support here, but I could be wrong.
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I disagree in that Bateau.com is a better site. They have only a few professionals there and the rest a range of novices to semi experienced builders. On this site, there are many more professionals from all areas of the industry, from America's cup winners to internationally know NA's, builders, restorers and repair professionals.

    That boat looks to be about 12' (3.6 m) long, which is a small boat, so really only suitable for 2 people, maybe 3 if they're small. The hull look like it's ready for the land fill, though anything can be fixed. You've cut away portions of the deck cap/liner, but didn't leave much "flange" room for bonding new stuff back in. You've also made a few other mistakes, like cutting the hull shell, but these too can be fixed. The real questions should be; how much do you want to toss (materials, labor, equipment. etc.) into this puppy, is this boat well suited for your needs, do you have an engine, controls and steering lined up and once repaired what will it need to do to satisfy you needs?

    The last question is the first you'll need to be honest about. So, make a list of what you want this boat to provide for you, once completed. With this list, we can access if this is a boat, that can accommodate those needs. Lastly, the hull and liner repairs will be a modest amount in the overall budget for this boat. You'll need an engine, controls and steering at the very least, which will cost a lot more than the small amount of 'glass fabrics and resin you'll use in the repairs. This is part of the assessment of it's suitability for your needs thing too. In other words, you may be able to afford the repairs, just to have it languish in your driveway, waiting for an outboard, steering and controls to drop into you lap.
     
  8. nemesis567
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Porto

    nemesis567 Junior Member

    This boat has once taken 7 people, it didn't feel very much safe. It was a 4 people boat in the beginning, no problem riding with 5.
    There is a steering system that was placed in there by the previous owner. It was basically a steel bar attached to the engine with a cable going over the wheel(steel attached but broken)(initially a gasoline engine, but we used an electric one). As per the request above here are two images of the weaker spots. By weaker it still feels tough, but if you press it it bends inward like it's missing support. Maybe this was done by removing the seats.

    xpc.jpg
    It's basically the same place on the other side.
    I'd say 4 seats to be a must, alongside a windshield and a few addons. We'd like to have a solar panel providing power for speakers, charging docks for phone and maybe some other device with some useful gadgets. This is probably a secondary battery so we'll need two batteries. One for the engine another for these things(maybe a few leds too). I guess we could use something like an RPI and attach whatever devices we need as a shield(accelerometer or whatever), and it runs on 5V so maybe the panel can feed it and it could even work as a radio, but I don't know if that's worth the trouble, maybe there's an easier standard way.

    I think bellow the backseats is a good place to have the engine battery as it can be connected easily but we'd like to be able to seal it somehow so it's safely stored. It'd be great to make the seats soft somehow, still waterproof but that's more of a luxury. Having a removable or retractable cover(to make some shade for the seats(maybe only the front or back seats) would be nice.~

    Having something for storage in the front part of the boat would be nice, a place where we could store maybe a thermal box to keep food cool or something like that. I have no clue on the costs of doing all this.

    Work is no problem, this only needs to be ready next spring. Still we are beginners and will probably **** up hopefully by a small fixable margin. But like I said we're eager to learn and dedicate enough time to properly do this.

    What would you recommend?
     
  9. nemesis567
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Porto

    nemesis567 Junior Member

    Also the dimensions are bigger, here are two hopefully understandable sheets of dimensions in meters:

    css.jpg dss.jpg
     
  10. nemesis567
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Porto

    nemesis567 Junior Member

    A better look at the old steering system:
    24140198_1532569176778244_1805073700_o.jpg

    You can see the system, that iron went through these holes in the engine place and is connected to the wheel in front through that cable. 24169641_1532615526773609_53539079_o.jpg
    24139927_1532616113440217_136211802_o.jpg
     
  11. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 2,014
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    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    The boat appears to be structurally supported by the seats/sole that you cut away.

    First thing is to get it dried out. You can't work on it wet. And it'll need to be upright, so tent the boat all sides and maybe someone here will help you develop a structural plan with a new sole.

    Take a pic of the tenting and some closeups of the bottom you cut away.

    Personally, I would build a wooden cradle to support the bottom when getting repaired; avoiding the saw damaged area. The cradle would be strong enough to support you standing in the boat above the cradle without hull movement.
     
  12. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    When it is dry; start on a small area and repair the saw damage first. I can tell you what I'd do, but others might have a better plan. But fixing the saw damage would be where I would start after you have a repair plan.

    Also, with your closeups; take a closeup of the saw damage and measure the hull thickness there and report.
     
  13. nemesis567
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Porto

    nemesis567 Junior Member

    I'll have to use epoxy right? Which mix should I get? What should I add to it? What are the risks of handling it and how do I do it properly? What tools will I need? What structure should I build the cradle with?
    The bottom was all broken and rotten. It used wood slices of sort glued together. We just push it off and then there were these yellow sponges filling in the remaining space.
    Thickness around 8mm, will confirm later.

    Really appreciating the help!
     
  14. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Lakeland Fl USA

    messabout Senior Member

    Nemesis567, there are some things that you need to know about the boat. First of all it is, or was, a planing type boat. To perform even modestly well it would need an engine with quite a bit of horsepower. At the lower end, I'd figure on 20 horsepower, preferably more....say up to 50 HP.

    You have said that you will use an electric motor. Practical electric power like the Torquedo for example, have much less power than a boat of this type needs. It is true that you could have an electric motor capable of 20 plus HP output but then the battery bank would have to be enormous......more than the boat would safely accommodate. And expensive too.

    If you wish to use electric power in a practical output range, the boat needs to be shaped differently. You would be better advised, in that case, to build a new boat that has the appropriate hull form for low power operation. If you are determined to use electric motors for your boat, then look for books that address that subject. One of them that comes to mind is....Electric Boats. Sub title: The handbook of clean, quiet boating by Douglas Little. ISBN 0-07-038104-6 Probably available from Amazon, Abe Books, or E Bay for a modest price.
     

  15. nemesis567
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Porto

    nemesis567 Junior Member

    It doesn't need to be particularly fast, it's just meant for leisure. It worked with a very small engine before, very slow but I think that can be improved upon? What would you recommend for best performance?
     
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