Ideal average angle of heel 20-30ft LOA

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by human 1.0, Apr 8, 2011.

  1. human 1.0
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    human 1.0 Don't mess w/ Humanity

    I am curious what people think the proper angle of heel should be across the board going to windward.
     
  2. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    There is no such thing. Each design type has an ideal angle of heel in different sea and wind conditions.
     
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  3. human 1.0
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    human 1.0 Don't mess w/ Humanity

    "There is no such thing"

    Forget that closed-minded approach. This is an across-the-board inquiry. This is a survey, like the census, everybody who sails has an angle of heel that they like, that makes them smile.

    I want to know what that is, and then reverse-engineer all the rest from that number. The shape of the chine comes to mind as a direct influence, and I am wondering about the spill of the sail, whatever sail that might be.
     
  4. Lister

    Lister Previous Member

    This is no reverse engineering, it is a stupid question.
    Read Gonzo, he is right.
    Lister
     
  5. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    There is no proper so to say, On my past very stiff broad beamed motorsailer she performed best at between 10 and 15 deg of heel. Thats where she balanced out nice with a little weather helm at max. speed. It's a boat characteristic thing and often it varys between so called identical craft and as such makes the reverse engineering difficult but I see your logic in thinking so.--Geo
     
  6. human 1.0
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    human 1.0 Don't mess w/ Humanity

    Ha, Vik'n to the rescue. This really is a subjective question; I think I should ask it "what angle do you feel exhilarated yet comfy at going to windward?"

    My boat has a 2000 lb lead jet wing of a keel, yet lies on its side with the right amount of wind. I 'd say the boom goes in the water except I never use it: genny does it.

    I find this exhilarating, but passengers tend to find it frightening.

    Viking: 10-15 deg.
    Others: version 0.1-0.2 level answers
     
  7. human 1.0
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    human 1.0 Don't mess w/ Humanity

    [​IMG]

    Here is an example of engineering from the angle of heel, which for this transat is 8-10 deg:

    "to windward they are slow and sail on a heeled water line around 8 - 10 degrees before you add yaw" Link

    I wonder if "yaw" means they fall over to leeward as there is so much less buoyancy up forward on a floating pie slice like a transat.
     
  8. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    As little as possible. Trim the boat to go, not heel.
     
  9. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The average angle will be from about 5 of degrees to windward to 30 degrees to leeward, depending on hull form, sail plan, ballast ratio live or fixed and about two dozen more variables. Of course you could refine this a bit more by "splitting the difference, so your target is 12 to 15 degrees. Of course it's ludicrous, but it's a number to reverse engineer from, though a profoundly poor way to engineer anything . . .
     
  10. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Plank on edge cutters sail at 20-25 degrees on average.
     
  11. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    That's a pretty arrogant way of asking for info, don't you think so?
     
  12. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    When the wife comes up wearing my dinner I know that its time to let out a bit.
     
  13. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    Thankyou Daiquiri - i wanted to say something about that but wasn't sure what it meant version 0.1 and 0.2, or how to go about it. If it's using members postings as a sort of comparison or competition I ask Human 1.0 to please not involve me in such and to please retract and remove that part of the post. I'm sure it was just a knee jerk reaction which we can be all guilty of from time to time, but If one has a beef with a post then i feel it should be a one on one situation as it is uncomfortable to be put in the middle. All posts are opportunity to learn for both sides, in technical information and etiquette myself included.
     
  14. HakimKlunker
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    HakimKlunker Andreas der Juengere

    I don't quite agree. I sailed an aged quarter tonner, and she was doing best at ca 15 degrees heel - VMG readings and race results confirmed this.
    But of course she would not go without proper sail trim.
     

  15. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    best angle of heel is zero, you get the most sail in the wind, and the keel is most effective. Hence, the catamaran. Even they heel a bit, but they come much closer than any mono-hull. some of the modern racing mono-hulls have very long weighted keels that can be swung to the side can also have very small heel angle. Now that is engineering to the "ideal" heel angle!

    I think each design settles into a heel angle that is best for it, it was not intentionally designed to a certain angle of heel. As pointed out, there are a lot of different factors that affect it, and the designer usually selects the various design elements to meet other higher priority design goals, and the best angle of heel just falls out of the those choices.

    It is indeed silly to design a boat to hit a certain "ideal" heel angle, it would be a very poor choice to compromise ALL other aspects of a sailboat design to meet a certain heel angle.
     
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