I would like help with a 38-45 foot trawler design

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by Quatsino Boater, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. Quatsino Boater
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    Quatsino Boater Junior Member

    So far in my serch I have narrowed down the designs to Tad's 2 schooner designs, the Boden trade winds or Tagari designs, a Bruce Roberts round chine spray 475 trawler,or traveler 45 and George Buehler diesel duck 41+ design. My web reserch is slowly grinding to a halt for lack of material. It seems that larger boats of this criteria are not very popular. On land I drive a 4 door jeep simply because of snow , mud slides and the remoteness of where I live and the places I like to go. I like a no nonsence approach to water as well, with full blue water capable no frills " ocean jeep " Rugged, reliable and will get you to where you want to go in safety and comfort, not creature comfort like leather seats and mirrored cocktail bar. My wife is talking about the possibilities of picking up a used industrial or commercial boat but I still think that option is mute. Most of the vessels I looked at have to high HP making them to expensive to run recreationally. for sea worthness, the holds are midships and the wheelhouse is forward, not the most comfortable ride. I would like at least 10 designs of Motorsailers or trawlers with sail plans to consider carfully before narowing down to 2 or 3 for study plans. So any more suggestions for a blue water trawler would be very much welcome :)
     
  2. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "So any more suggestions for a blue water trawler would be very much welcome."

    You desire a "blue water" vessel which will cost about 300% more to build than a standard coastal cruiser.

    WHY ?, do you plan on winter operation in 10-20 ft winter seas for fun?

    IF you can find a library in your area there may be a reference section that has bound copies of Yachting , from the 50's and 60's.

    These should be studied as almost ALL wooden or metal boats at that time were "one off" so experienced owners worked with their personal favorite design office to get their dream boat.Many were 45-60 ft LOA .

    The first edition (before it became just an advertising tool ) of Robert B Beebe "Voyaging Under Power" should be purchased, for reference .

    Erick Hiscock Voyaging under Sail, and his other books should be read to get up to speed on what can be done in modest sized sail boats.

    The internet is only a resource to find stuff AFTER you read/learn enough to decide what you really want.

    The Library is where real information is located.

    FF
     
  3. Quatsino Boater
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    Quatsino Boater Junior Member

    Thank Fred, A calm day up here is 6 to 9 foot seas . But yes, halibut season has started march 1st so it is a bit of winter operations. the wind comes in from the west, either a SW or NW. my inlet faces east and opens into the pacific directly. An ouflowing tide coupled with a SW or NW wind you can look at a 15 foot sea on a relativly calm day, seas can pick up in 15 minutes. These are northern waters , if you end up in the water you only have 10 to 30 minutes survival rate in the cold water. There is submerged logs 3 to 8 feet in diameter and up to 100 feet long all along the coast. These are lost from log booms, log barges or simply lifted off the shore at high tides. These waters are not to be taken lightly. If you have little respect /knowledge of the local waters you are foolhardy.

    Last year on a relativly calm day a guide boat with three American fisherman went out the same day as my picture in this post. they had a 25 foot double hulled aluminum. They perished. The boat was found 10 miles to the south, overturned. The bodies were never recovered. We believe that they were probably caught broadside by a rouge wave. That is why there were no bodies. they probably had no time to put on life jakets. They were probably ejected from the boat. The same thing happened. A mid morning wind came up and it got ugly very fast. We went in to shelter. They were not that fortunate. keep in mind that this was August.

    I have been looking at trawlers all my life and was going to build one with my father ,but he passed away last year so it's up to me to carry on. The increase in deisel up here is on par with gasoline so my criteria has now included a sail rig. Not that I am a sailor but it is what the economy dictates. Look at Tads design, that is the type of vessel I want, I am not wishy washy on that aspect. I would just like at least 10 simular designs to choose from. I like to make informed decisions and keep my options open. To do otherwise is fool hardy and well you might as well buy something for the color.

    so bottom line is I need a better list of designers/N. A. who design a trawler with either a schooner or ketch rig as a viable alternative power sourse. Not just steadying sails. P.S. I don't expect to win a race in the thing. It ain't a yacht, it's something better than that.

    You say 300% more expensive. please could you explain? I figure same steel, same sail plan, same single engine, I plan on watertight doors anyways. The only added expence I could see is maybe a watermaker and perhaps more spare parts.

    I may also wish to do the California to Hawaii run someday. By the way do you know if groups of boats do the run in September? one of the guys I worked with did it then went off to Newzealand. I haven't seen him since.
     
  4. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Reading the conditions you suggest are common , my only suggestion would to purchase a scrap Coastie self righting boat .

    These are for sale at times .

    Sails and mast would slow down the roll back up feature tho,

    FF
     
  5. Quatsino Boater
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    Quatsino Boater Junior Member

    Hi Fred, Ah I wish that was true :( Most used boats around here are aluminum/fibergalss 20 to 30 foot cuddycab for sport fishing. I already have one of those.

    The closest thing is ex comercial fish boats. The aluminum ones around 20 plus years old and fairly high powered. These were faster boats for the eigties and ninties when fuel prices were much lower. theree are a number of old to very old wood trawlers around too. Not very much in the way of steel though. You would have to convert the boats into a livable passage maker. most comercials have a foward wheel house and fish holds midship. To re equip with sails would be tough too. Basically I think you would have to strip of the deck to the hull and start afresh. Speaking of fresh , the old fish odor!
    I think you could easily sink $50 000 into one of these and you would have a 20 or 30+ year old boat.

    I have seen a few used dedicated sailboat on the cheap side though. The only problem is I'm a powerboat guy so to go to a strick sailboat might be tuff for me and well I like powerboats.

    I think there might be some market in the USA, Oregon or Washington state but I just don't know how tranfer of title, registration and taxes work out up here.

    But is doesn't hurt to keep my options open untill my retirement in 2 years :)
     
  6. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    The only problem is I'm a powerboat guy so to go to a strick sailboat might be tuff for me and well I like powerboats.

    BIG PROBLEM , no powerboat with a mast stuck on it will do anything but blow dead downwind.

    The underbody is just too different for it to work.

    Decide what you really need the boat to do.

    FF
     
  7. Quatsino Boater
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    Quatsino Boater Junior Member

    Well the first ugly storm of the season is kickin it up so thoughts of my trawler is on again. I will be working alot of overtime this winter to fund buying a set of design plans as soon as I finalize my selection. The thread " Poll: Will $5/gallon gas change the next boat you buy?" by IMP-ish is spot on on my decision making process. Any long journeys will have to include a sail plan given the pricing of fuel now and in the future. iam a power boat guy but I will have to learn to sail in ofshore , uncongested water to cut the fuel bill.

    Tad I love your new website! i like that you have added so many more designs to it as well. I love that you included pricing as well and you are very competitive as well. you are right in the ball park for my budget! Besides the 42 foot schooner that we have discussed and I very much like, I like your ocean 55 but no sail plan :( and I like your Northwest 34 but too bad it isn't available in aluminum or steel.

    Another factor in nailing down a design is the California to Hawaii run. Has anyone here on the forums done it? I am used to thee pacific north west weather and seas but have no idea of the Cali -Hawaii run in september ,return in May. Is a 38 to 50 footer doable? Thanks in advance . Here is a few pics of other designs I am looking into to give the forum an Idea what type of boat I am interested in

    [​IMG]

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
     
  8. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    The real issue with the California to Hawaii run isn't the seas. It is pretty much downwind the whole way as you sail south out of California, and circle around the mid-pacific high. The real problem is the trip back, which can be a pretty slow going as you can either sail upwind into breeze you sailed down on, or have to sail all the way around the pacific rim (to go down wind), or have to cut across the doldrums. Most sailboats choose the doldrums route, and carry lots of extra fuel to make the trip, or accept that they could be out there for weeks.

    Do some research on the Transpac race, and there is a tremendous amount of information easily available about routing information, strategy, equipment, dangers and the like. The friends I know who did it sailed down, then shipped the boat back to the US since it was easier and cheaper than trying to sail back on the boats bottom.

    Generally the favored route is sail north out of Hawaii untill you hit breeze then turn east. Trip length seems to run around 20-30 days for sailboats in the 30-40 range, some do it faster or slower of course, and a boat with enough fuel range can do it in significantly less.
     
  9. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

  10. Quatsino Boater
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    Quatsino Boater Junior Member

    Mmmm very nice :) Is it definitely what I am looking for in a final boat to retire with. It has a little less sail management than the schooner. This will help me being a powerboat guy with little sailing experience and over 50 years old to get into sailing and get real fuel savings from either shutting down the engines running downwind or throttling back a bit on a reach. It also gives a big piece of mind on an engine failure.

    Tad, is this design roughly the length I'm looking for? If so, I am definitely hooked. Being a local designer in my neighbourhood would also be a bonus as well! I love to support local business. Thing are starting to shape up!

    This winter I have lots of opportunity to work a bit extra for plans and a bit more equipment. As I semi retire I will do a bit of welding outside of work (Contracting) so I am already planning on a welding machine for the back of my 1 ton. I already have cutting torches, alignment tools, radial arm saw, table saw, couple of routers, 5/8 drill press numerous power hand tools, chain falls, come along, basically 25 years of trades tools being a welder and a millwright.

    Now if the price of steel rolls back due to a bit of a recession and I can get good steel prices, I will be a very happy camper. Bring back the 42 cent a pound days! My boat survey out at 30 grand so selling it off and a little savings, and it will be done ;)

    Tad I will keep in contact for sure as the funding fills in. :)
     
  11. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Q......

    In your post #37 you mentioned no sailing rig on my Ocean 55 design, the rig addition is a small problem so my post above is the Ocean 55 with auxiliary sailing rig.

    A slightly smaller version of this short ketch rig can be substituted for the schooner rig on the 42' Halibut Boat. I think many laymen tend to see designs as cast in stone where I tend to see them as fluid (until construction starts) and almost anything can be revised......

    Oh and be aware that the Ocean 55 is a big boat, 75,000 pounds with 1700 usg of integral fuel storage (lots of work), the 42' Halibut Schooner at 36,000 lbs. will be half the man hours and material cost of the OC55.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011
  12. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Here's the 42' without the bowsprit and with a typical ketch rig. I've also added an outside control station.

    ketch04.jpg
     
  13. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Tad,

    How hard would it be to add a telescoping or pivoting bow sprit to set an asymmetrical kite off of on the 42? Particularly if the boat is headed to Hawaii where the breeze is at about 135 of of the starboard quarter for weeks on end, it seems to me that a large asym kite could help a lot.
     
  14. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Not hard....just another project.....easier might be to find an old aluminum spinnaker pole and use that, make up a heel "shoe" to fit against the mast and guy in place. The mizzen staysail is also a useful possibility.......
     

  15. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    That would certainly work. On the Andrews 70 instead of a bracket at the bow we used a dyneema strop, but the same idea. It just crossed my mind that it would be a shame to have that kind of spinnaker run, and not set one.
     
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