I would like help with a 38-45 foot trawler design

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by Quatsino Boater, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. Quatsino Boater
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 52
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Port alice BC

    Quatsino Boater Junior Member

    Hi, I am new to the forum. I am a 50-ish Journeyman Welder, Journeyman Millwright who is looking forward to retirement. I plan to build my first boat as soon as I retire. My Father and I love the sea and boating since I have the privilege of living on Vancouver Island. We had our share of power boats staring from a 22 foot Clinker with a 2 cyl.? Inboard in the sixties to the Campion 21 footer that I currently own now for prawning in winter and Salmon/ Halibut fishing in the summer.
    I have seen some rough waters, Aran rapids, Quatsino Narrows, Quatsino sound and the open Pacific. I frequently talk to the Tug operators bringing up barges from Washington State and from Vancouver that round Cape Scott.
    With this in mind a salty, stable trawler type is what I am interested in. In my part of the pacific we can get 6 -10 meter waves in the winter and occasionally 3-5 in the summer. We have very strong tide currents, actually more of a river that occurs so it must have reserve power to handle 5 knot plus currents. We have a lot of self-dumping log barges and log booms here so there is a lot of debris in the water. A six foot diameter water logged deadhead sticking out only inches is a pretty common occurrence in the inlets. So impacts are another issue to deal with besides the sea. It is intended for costal cruising but be blue water capable for outside waters.
    I would like to build A 38 to a 45 foot trawler that is very fuel efficient and would have a get home sail rig with the possibility of using it as an alternative to the engine. I have studied George Buehler’s designs and like the 41 plus Duck. . I have studied Bruce Roberts’s designs and like the PFC 40. I also studied Michael Kasten’s designs and like the Great heart 38, 48 and the Gulliver 46. I want to be comfortable so interior design would be focused on two person occupancy with an occasional couple for a weekend outing of cruising season. I would still like the opportunity to have an aft cockpit so I could still catch my meals.
    So with the above information I think a full displacement steel trawler is what I am after. Single engine with a 30 to 80 hp diesel. Not too much windage from a large pilot house either. It would have a sail plan suited for auxiliary power and a reliable get home rig. I have little experience in sailing but ample in power boating. As I get older my need for speed is waning and with the price of fuel these days I am becoming more interested in sail. I would appreciate any positive comments on the above designers. I don’t believe in flaming builders/designers since I am a tradesman as well. I am however receptive to any new designs or designers that you are aware of that fits this profile. Thanks and stay healthy, get out and fish!;)
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 13,621
    Likes: 383, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    It sounds like a reasonable proposal. I suggest you start at designer's websites or published plans to narrow the options. Unless the Gulliver is pretty much what you have your heart set on.
     
  3. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 2,300
    Likes: 176, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2281
    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    A halibut schooner in double chine steel.....42' by 12'8" with 5'0" draft

    blackbow02.jpg
     
  4. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 2,300
    Likes: 176, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2281
    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

  5. Quatsino Boater
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 52
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Port alice BC

    Quatsino Boater Junior Member

    Hi, I do like a lot of aspects of the 42 Halibut Schooner. I would prefer a forward sloped wheelhouse to modernize the lines a bit. I love the amount of deckspace at the back which drive my curiosity to see whats under the hood. All that deck freedom makes me wonder what the interior layout posibilities are. 5.0 draft can give you a fair bit of headroom below. I love the lines with the fore and aft bulwark. I would love a single queen berth with a lounge( couch, wing chair and a dickerson deisel stove to warm around) instead of jamming in another berth like so many designs do. The dinette or galley table should convert to a secondary birth for the relatives for an ocasional weekender. hopefully the interior maximized for two people would free up room for a workable engine room with work table. Remember retired tradesman, I have to put some of my tools somewhere!

    I would like to know about the stability of the design. how is the righting monment? Terrible conditions happen fast at the north end of the Island. We tipically go 2-7 miles offshore with our existing 21 footer and as the wind picks up in the afternoon the seas can go from 3 to 9 feet in very litlle time. Matters are worse when a tide change occures in the inlet where the waves get short and stacked.
    Broaching is a concern of mine and so is heeling. I would like a strong righting moment at a large heel angle closer to a sailboat. how is the roll with this design? would paravanes be nesisary? Or would the aft rig would suffice as a steady rig? I would not have the ability to out run the weather as I do now in my planing hull so if a nasty 30 knot wind picked up from a dead calm in 45 minutes I would have to ride through it at 7 knots. I intended this to be a coastal cruiser with blue water capabilities so to get to the inside passage I would have to go out of Quatsino sound, past.Top Knot, past Cape Scott and then up. A lot of exposure!

    As I mentioned I am not a sailor but a powerboat user who is starting to think about sail options and is worried as fuel prices increase. I am looking for a "entry level " sail rig that could be set by my wife and I without too much of a learning curve or effort. My wife and I are in our fifties and would be handleing the sails alone. Could you expalin to a novice (Myself) the differece in ease of operation and performance between a Schooner and ketch rig? Is it possiblre to relocate the wheelhouse a little aft or the foremast slightly foreward to remove it from the wheelhouse a bit? Happy designing!
     
  6. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Since its a power boat , it is not likely that you will have much interest in "Ghosting" sailing in under 5K of wind.

    So the sails will mostly be used for 10-20K conditions either to sail, or simply assist the engine to lower the fuel burn.

    Unfortunatly this usually requires a CPP controlable pitch prop which will add $7000 and up to the build cost.

    That is in addition to the added cost of the mast, sails and probably ballast the boat will need.

    For what is basically an inshore boat , that will stick her nose out once in a Blue Moon, that's a big expense .

    The simplest way to go cheap is to go long.

    A 40 X15 boat will have similar room to a 60x10 boat and will be similar in the materials bill to build her.The 60 will be cheaper to push , and faster if you will pay the fuel bill when required.

    This , http://dashewoffshore.com/ is an example of a genuine offshore boat , built to be efficient.

    Although its still a fat boat for rich folks with big fuel bucks.

    FF
     
  7. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 2,300
    Likes: 176, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2281
    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    I have fished in Hecate Strait and off the west side of the Charlottes, this boat is designed expressly to cruise our North Pacific waters......It's a custom boat and you are the builder so you can have it your way.......

    See attached Sailplan......

    View attachment HSSailplan.pdf
     
  8. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 2,300
    Likes: 176, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2281
    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

  9. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Tad, a fine looking vessel, two-masted, plumb bow, with the aft mast carrying the mainsail but what criteria do you use to call her an "halibut schooner" or is it just used loosely, comparing her to what I know as a halibut schooner? Has the definition been broadened or has sufficient time passed that you are comfortable using the term for a new class? I'm not knocking it, by any means, but the ones I know stopped being produced around WWl and, steeped in tradition, were big enough to fish dories (even if they may not have fished dories - I don't know). Anyway, I could see myself aboard your boat. Nice work, as usual! Are any fishing? It may be the wave of the future!
     
  10. Quatsino Boater
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 52
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Port alice BC

    Quatsino Boater Junior Member

    Thanks Tad. This is very much what I am looking for. This is the first design i have seen that gives a good amount of open deck space. Everything is kept low so low windage.

    1 to 2 years untill my semi retirement. I have made a deal with my wife where I can still work after my official retirement strickly to fund the boat. So I will be narrowing my choice fairly soon. Thanks again and happy boating.
     
  11. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 2,300
    Likes: 176, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2281
    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    I don't think this is true for the way most folks (in my part of the world) use their boats......

    If the biggest single expenses of ownership are moorage and haulouts (both priced by the foot of length). The shorter boat might be cheaper if time under way is less than 100 hours a year....and for most it is far less than that.....
     
    phillysailor likes this.
  12. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 2,300
    Likes: 176, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2281
    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    My 42' design is modeled closely on the larger (65'-80') heavy displacement commercial fishing "schooners" which have been chasing halibut in the North Pacific for the last 100 years or so.......They are referred to as schooners though they've actually been powerboats almost forever.....In the North Pacific fisheries schooner implies an aft wheelhouse with hauling station forward, just at the break of the foredeck. They also typically have two short masts in schooner configuration, though they set a single small jib (no bowsprit) a gaff foresail, and a main trysail usually left up.......

    This 42' is very like these old schooners in hull form though she is slightly less burdensome and carries a bit more ballast.....Typically the old wooden boats would have bilges full of cement and little or no outside ballast. This keeps the VCG fairly high, though loaded with ice and fish that changed. So our new version is all steel, to keep VCG high and motion slow and comfortable. A hull of moderate beam, with vertical stem and round stern is closely modeled on the old Scandinavian influenced designs.

    The rig is short, but still enough to move her should that be required. The bowsprit would be rigged on a pin to slide aft onto the deck when not in use or on entering harbour, no point in paying for another 7' if you don't have to.......



    Columbia_1924.sized.jpg
     
  13. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 2,300
    Likes: 176, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2281
    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    The usual BC North Coast harbour (those in Alaska as well) are crowded government wharves where everybody rafts 3 deep. Of course boats are coming and going all the time.....this requires good all around decks, big bitts fore and aft, and a tough boat.......Being able to duck in and out of the pilothouse doesn't hurt (cause it's always raining), plus having a comfortable seat/berth right there out of the weather but with windows all around to keep an eye on things......

    I did intend there to be a footwell and outside helm on the aft deck, for fishing and sailing........
     
  14. Quatsino Boater
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 52
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Port alice BC

    Quatsino Boater Junior Member

    Not to worry about my local moorage. I am a member of a private (small) club. fees are very affordable for local members. My slip is within walking didstance of my home and where I prawn is viewable from our kitchen window! You are right about the rain. One of the biggest concerns of mine is condensation and internal moisture. Spray foam on the interior still the norm? I read somewhere about trapped moisture maybe? I think keeping the heat on with the heater will be a wise way to go. My 21 footer is awaiting a 12 x 24 roof to keep some rain off, but a small heater and drizair containers can only do so much for now.

    We get a self dumping barge here every 7 to 10 days so we are constantly on the lookout for logs and deadheads. The local salvage kids do a pretty good job but there is always some that get away. So qwhen you say a tough boat , that what really makes me smile. So many of us had legs riped off or worse from wet wood a foot beneath the surface. A full lentgh keel giving prop protection is very comforting. Going bonk or bump at a few knots is a lot better then a crack at 20+ knots.

    I love the rounded stern. :)
     

  15. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Everything Tad does, I like... I'm learning, and I've asked some old-timers since my previous post. About the only thing the sails on an HALIBUT schooner are used for is laying on their gear. According to some that have fished these, they never much worked under sail other than for steadying. One guy from Halibut cove who has fished on schooners since the thirties says that "schooners did not die with the old ones you're thinking about", in fact he owns one he calls a schooner that only has a small steadying sail, is steel, and is only 43' long. The consensus was that they typically have a broken shear, plumb bow, etc., but the need for 60, 70, 80' of length went the way of dorymen. Some of these things slept the stinky crew forward seperate from the captain (I like that)!
    I'm going to take a stab - the one you posted is the Olympic?
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.