I need help in finding a day sail design to build?

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by inubus, May 15, 2009.

  1. inubus
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 5
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: skiatook, oklahoma

    inubus Junior Member

    I live real close to a local lake that is good for sailing and have a fascination for cats and projects I can do myself. I am new to sailing though I have heard of wharram plans but was wondering if there were other options for a trailable beachcat or day sailer with little accomadations. any help or ideas would be appreciated. thanks
     
  2. peterAustralia
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 360
    Likes: 26, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 233
    Location: Melbourne Australia

    peterAustralia Senior Member

    hi

    Small mulithull with accommodation is difficult

    At one end you have trimaran designs at 18ft and from 350kg and upwards. But that may be too large and too pricey for you

    Another option may be a Jarcat, J5. With the economy the way things are now, you may be able to buy something cheap (second hand).

    Going cheaper still, you can build something like my boat, an outrigger sialing canoe. I have an 18ft x 4ft dory, and a 14ft outrigger. The concept has a lot of potential. I have slept in mine, and in calm conditions it worked well. In very heavy steep oncoming waves it pounded badly, but that was me trying to get home when I should not have done, and having a flat bottom, whereas a V bottom would have been superior.

    It all depends, how much accommodation do you want.
    What weight are you prepared to accept,
    what is your budget.
    how much time are you prepared to spend at assembly
    Where do you wish to sail
    Do you wish to sail fast or is modest speed OK
    How many people does it need to carry? 1,2,3 or more
    Do you need a fixed roof or would a pop-top or canvas top be appropriate
    What is your building skill. can you work off a quick sketch, or do you need detailed plans

    some other boats that may suit
    there is an 18ft cat called Slider that has some accommodation, not sure if you can sleep in it, you could do
    Chris Ostlind has his A18T, in all probability he will read this soon and put in his 2 cents worth
    At duckworks there was a 15ft proa called Big Zen a while back
    I have some photos of Gary Lepak's very simple but spacious 18ft tri, a bit boxy is true, but cost effective yes.


    If your budget is modest and you do not mind sleeping under canvas, then you could build a really nice outrigger canoe, with a sleek, narrow, wave piercing hull that would be fast, on top of that add a 8ft x 4ft deck with footwells into the hull, and then when you want accommodation, use a hinged or scissors style mechanism to raise the deck. I am biased of course because I have an outrigger sailing canoe, and I am first to step in..

    N Peter Evans
     
  3. inubus
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 5
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: skiatook, oklahoma

    inubus Junior Member

    thanks peter for the info to answer a fw questins we know a group of hobie enthusiasts that keep trying to get us to go that way, but although the hobie seems fun I want something more stable and kind of cruiser like. accomadations are more like drink storage we will be on inland lakes mostly so we can beach easy enough or sleep under canvas. the budget is low cost but can be drug out a little while on construction I am only 26 so I got years to go lol.. thanks again
     
  4. peterAustralia
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 360
    Likes: 26, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 233
    Location: Melbourne Australia

    peterAustralia Senior Member

    hi

    I was talking about something like this

    http://harmenhielkema.blogspot.com/

    this one is a proa, that is shunting, but a tacking craft is doable too, roughly the same layout, but a conventional rig and conventional kickup rudder.

    Plans/boats that I can think of
    Wharram Hitia 17
    Tornado maybe too big
    Paper Tiger cat
    windrush has a 14ft cat (but that is fiberglass)
    Michael Schact drew an open cat with storage on his website recently, that is proafile.com

    here is a plan index, you might find something here
    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/plansindex.htm

    do you have a craigslist where you are. Maybe there is something to be had for a few hundred dollars on your local ebay



    pretty sure there are lots of small catamarans out there. Becasue there are so many they can be bought second hand for modest price. Probably less than cost of building.

    So perhaps build if you need to, but if you have option to buy a fiberglass one at modest cost, you can save your money for other thins. I used to sail a 12ft cat, went really well through the waves. Upwind was not as well as I would have liked, it lacked a jib and or centerboard, but it did go upwind.
     
  5. inubus
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 5
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: skiatook, oklahoma

    inubus Junior Member

    thanks again

    i really appriciate it the info is very good. all i can really find around this area is just an occasional hobiecat wich as i stated look fun but i want something different. Not to mention the cheapest i have found a hobie were the glass on the hulls are not goin soft and rotting is around $2000 so that is why i am looking more towords building instead.

    The Wharram Hitia 17 is what i have been thinking about although i have thought the 14 more appropriate to start considering it will be my first boat build. The Sailing canoes look enteresting and entertaining how are they for a novice sailor? And does anyone know how well the Wharrams sail for a novice as well? And i would like to be able to put up to 4 people on the boat although i do not have that expectation with the 14.

    I thank you once again for the help and any more info is welcome i am still looking because i want to find the best boat for the least money and something i can build relatively inexpensively but still can put my own style with it. My family has had a lot of carpentry run through it and i am a aircraft painter myself so it could get to be a very interesting project.

    Thanks again
     
  6. peterAustralia
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 360
    Likes: 26, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 233
    Location: Melbourne Australia

    peterAustralia Senior Member

    hi

    are you sure you can't find an old catamaran lying about for a few hundred dollars. In Melbourne Australia there are always several 14ft cats for sale at any one time for about $600 Aust = about $450 US.

    Tim Anderson built a 24ft outrigger for $200, but then again he is amazing!
    http://www.instructables.com/id/Trimaran/

    I think my boat cost around about $2000 US or about $3000 Australian. Possibly a waste of money but was a good learning experience. Sail is polytarp though I now have dacron. Mast cost about $30 in wood, just a simple unstayed thingy.

    http://www.geocities.com/peterevans_33/

    on the links page there are quite a few small multihulls, mostly different thingies, not too many cats. Things I like such as the cafe falcon kayak 20ft skin on frame outrigger canoe.... just so cool!!!

    this guy built a 17ft wharram
    http://islandtimeonline.blogspot.com/2006/01/tiki-21-catamaran-project.html

    You rarely if ever hear a bad thing about Wharram. The only thing might be poor upwind ability compared to some other boats, and plans are a fraction pricey, but aside from that, have never ever heard a bad thing about them.

    and some things from ebay
    where is WI wisconsin,, is that close to oklahoma.. is all in the middle yes?
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-Aquacat-13-Catamaran-Sailboat-Trailer-WI_W0QQitemZ120419192045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSailboats?hash=item1c098b0ced&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1308



    befoer I go
    suggest put add in local paper saying wanted a 13 to 16ft catamaran
    also try woodenboat.com/forum if you ask a question there you will probably get more replies


    Indiana is that close?
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/16-HOBIE-CAT-sail-boat_W0QQitemZ270389544348QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSailboats?hash=item3ef479059c&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318
     
  7. multihullsailor
    Joined: Nov 2007
    Posts: 30
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Cape Town

    multihullsailor Junior Member

    Hi inubus,
    You might also want to consider to build a small Harryproa in the KSS method, info at www.harryproa.com.
     
  8. rayaldridge
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 581
    Likes: 26, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 322
    Location: USA

    rayaldridge Senior Member

    There's this:

    [​IMG]

    Not a fast boat, but probably the most comfortable-to-sail 16' cat ever built, with adjustable forward or aft facing seating for two in the hulls.
     
  9. bill broome
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 102
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 48
    Location: sydney

    bill broome Senior Member

    farrier drew and sold a 20 ft folding tri called 'tramp' which might suit you. at this size tris are attractive because they go on and off a trailer quickly.

    it's a good daysailer, and many owners make a detachable tent or hardtop to create a useful weekender too.
     
  10. inubus
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 5
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: skiatook, oklahoma

    inubus Junior Member

    thank you guys very much for all the info it is very useful i and do appreciate it
     
  11. ThomD
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 542
    Likes: 13, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 111
    Location: TO

    ThomD Senior Member

    You have to be realistic, if it were a car, and you said you wanted one that was fun to drive, but also had room for a bed, sounds simple but could encompass camper vans and sports cars. If you want it to be small and under 2K, you really are asking a lot. There are a lot of small crusing multis, but they aren't cheap, they probably cost more in the 10K and up range. I like the Jarcat, the Kendrick 18, and the trailertri 18 (hard to find the plans). I couldn't really find what I wanted, and as a result am designing two at the moment, a cheaper 18 foot tri, and a 21 foot water ballasted cat. I think the absolute minimal boat would be something like a 3m and up tri converted into a sleeping bag sized berth. Don't know if any one has done it yet. But they can be fun to sail. If something as basic as this can be cruised:

    http://www.gartsideboats.com/catrow2.php#pedal

    Why not something like this:

    http://www.multihulldesigns.com/designs_stock/daysail/Gizmo.jpg

    http://www.multihulldesigns.com/designs_stock/daysail/16_tri.htm

    Or worse still:

    http://www.multihulldesigns.com/designs_stock/daysail/12_tri.htm
     
  12. inubus
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 5
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: skiatook, oklahoma

    inubus Junior Member

    i didn't mean accomadations as in a bed and kitchen i just meant storage room or a possable place on the tramp or something for a pop up or standard tent. One of my main problems with the hobie is no real storage, atleast dry storage. So yes i do appriciate the ideas and you did point out that i didnt give very good description of my meaning. also as i stated building quickly and money is not an issue as it will be a project i will take my time on and will not be caring what i spend on it if i spend it in a 3 or 4 or however long it takes me to build. My main point of this boat is something for my wife and i to do. After it is done we just want to sail on local lakes for fun. We have friends that have Hobies and we would like to be able to keep up or outrun them for entertainment afterwards.

    Those tris are very nice looking but i don't know much about tris and don't know anyone who has sailed one. So as far as they go i am ignorant so any tips on them being a better boat than a cat or anything else that is important about tris would be very helpful.

    Thanks again
     
  13. ThomD
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 542
    Likes: 13, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 111
    Location: TO

    ThomD Senior Member

    There is a current thread on cats vs. tris, but while interesting, at the scale you are involved in, it is not likely relevant since the issues involved switch back and forth several times over as one ascends through the various size brackets.

    I don't think you will likely get a tri in a small size that is large enough on deck to carry a tent. It could easily be done, but I can't think of any current desireable examples. It would be possible to convert the cockpit and stowage on the 16 into a camping platform.

    For whatever reasons beach cats were all the rage as the iconic for of small multi. That said, the gougeons have built tris in several catagories that beat the smaller sized cats in racing performance. Likewise, earlier on tris were very popular in larger sizes, though in the last 10-20 years cats are well in the lead. The basic advantage of tris is the potential to carry more sail for a given size of boat, to have a lower wetted area when ghosting along in light air (important if you want to minimize motoring). Tris are more easily folded into a small package, though smaller sized cats may not need to be folded, or they can be made narrow and water ballast used (or in smaller sizes, your weight).

    In sub 20 footers for cruising my favorite thing about a tri is that one can fit a goodly accomodation into a very small package. Only one "large" hull needs building and the other hulls are evening projects virtually (ok a week at one hour a night). The boat can have pretty high performance.

    In the same size of cat one can have 4 berths, and keep the thing legal trailering size, and not have any assembly, but the boat isn't likely as high performance, and it is going to be a significantly bigger build, if in some ways possibly less complex (though two rudders and boards, etc... is a bad deal).

    While what you say about spinning a project out is right on, life has a way of catching up on you. I have had radical shifts in demographics by the time two of my personal boats were done. Very hard to peg the boat you will need then, by the boat you need now.

    I think the tent on deck thing is a looser. I really doubt many people actually use them all that much as the single form of accomodation. Let's say it rains, how many of the crew will be back for more after a day or two in wet rain putting the tent up and down, versus the chance to hide out in a cuddy with a book while Mr. enthusiastic plays with the boat. I built one cat with a deck sized for a tent and I am yet to use the tent on it.

    I am currently selling a NOS 24' tri for 4K, so searching through your used market may be an advantage.
     
  14. jmolan
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 66
    Likes: 2, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 65
    Location: Mexico/Oregon/Alaska

    jmolan Junior Member


  15. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
    Posts: 1,055
    Likes: 64, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 358
    Location: finland

    kerosene Senior Member

    I would second looking for used boats. In Los Angeles area you see all the time used decent boats going for way less you can build anything.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.