Hydrogene powered boat

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by YuriB, May 6, 2011.

  1. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Boston: the water engine conspiracy theory I am referring to is that you fill the tank with water and a standard car engine will run. It was supposed to be some kind of "special carburetor".
     
  2. truecougarblue
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    truecougarblue Junior Member

    HHO is actually a specific gas mixture, but not a chemical formula. It is also known as Brown's gas. It is essentially H2 and O2 in a mixture that only in=gnites when it reached its specific heat of ignition, something like 1100degF.

    There are actually commercially available Brown's gas torches that manufacture their own gas using electrical input. If one subjects water with catalyst to electrolysis without troubling to separate the Hs from the Os then Brown's gas is what you get.

    I don't think I would consider using Brown's on a boat for any purpose. It is fuel and oxidizer in one, it would be tough to arrive at a comfortable risk level with that on a boat.

    I would however look more carefully at the H2 itself, discarding the O2. H2 is no more volatile than propane and we use that in boat all the time. It is also lighter than air, which in boats is a nice property for a fuel to have.

    I am looking at using H2 as heating and generative backup on my project. I'll try to remember to post as I go. My first step is to set up a system to heat my home H2O with homemade H2.
     
  3. thudpucker
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    thudpucker Senior Member

    I'd like to keep up with that H2 Gas idea. I still might try it.
    PM me if there's any way I can help.
     
  4. truecougarblue
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    truecougarblue Junior Member

  5. speedboats
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    speedboats Senior Member


    How heavy do you suppose H2 is once compressed to 20MPa?

    Are you using a fuel cell to heat your home water, or burning directly?
     
  6. thudpucker
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    thudpucker Senior Member

    I'm guessing she meant it dissipates quickly upwards, not down into the bilges like Propane or Gasoline.
     
  7. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    I know nothing about hydrogen fuel, except it's used in rocket engines with O2.
    Do know a bit about diesels, not a lot, more operational than design.
    Worked with a lot of EMDs and ALCOs over years. The large cylinders and pistons are very vulnerable to condensation at rest.
    The first step in start up, is pre-lube because they are dry sump engines.
    Second step is open all the star valves. (decompression valves with star shaped knobs)
    Third step is blow down. The engine is rotated by starter just like you'd do for starting, except fuel is still shut off, and no compression. This dries and evacuates condensate from cylinders.
    Then star valves closed. Fuel on. When start air pressure builds to 160 psi again, start engine. (air starters, not electric motors)

    My point? If moisture on pistons was a concern, an engine could be built with compression release to dry it out in the same manner as these big engines. My 2 cents.
     
  8. MechaNik
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    MechaNik Senior Member

    Moisture you find in an engine is not there from condensation of the burnt fuel. In a large two stroke there is extra condensation due to the cylinders not being able to be closed properly and some in full scavenge position where the wind can whistle through.
    All diesel engine are effectively dry sump, the fact that it is full of oil is misleading as there is no splash lubrication.

    If you consider that for the same energy content Hydrogen produces three times the H2O that diesel does that should give you an idea of how much water vapour is produced your engine.
    This is why all fuels have a lower an a higher calorific value. We use the lower value because this is how much energy the fuel has without extracting the heat energy from the latent heat of vaporisation from the H2O. If you could actually achieve condensation in a running engine it should theoretically be more efficient.
    Dealing with higher levels of H2O in exhaust vapour is hardly an issue, the Sulphuric acid, etc formed from contaminants in diesel are far more of a concern and are dealt with.
     
  9. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    All the problems of H2 fuel can be solved except one. The problem with H2 as a fuel is not its weight (H2 fuel has the highest energy per unit weight of all fuels), but rather its storage volume. When compressed to a liquid (most compact form) it is under very high pressure and VERY unstable and dangerous. Everyone who has attempted to make liquid H2 vehicle has abandon it as too dangerous (usually have several violent explosions). If just compressed into a low pressure gas it will take up way too much volume, and not practical in a moving vehicle. The best way is with a hydride fuel cell, heavy and costly but it works acceptably. H2 gas is absorbed into a hydride compound and stored until released by heating.
     
  10. truecougarblue
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    truecougarblue Junior Member

    It doesn't really matter much how heavy it is when compressed, what matters is will is dissipate (or pool) if it leaks. Propane pools, not a desirable characteristic in a cooking fuel, IMHO.

    I currently use Propane to heat my water at home as there is no natural gas line nearby. My plan is to refit to burn hydrogen instead. The idea is that if I can't make enough hydrogen on land at home to heat my water it would be unreasonable to assume I can make enough at sea to use for occasional motive power. I'm giving myself a 1 year time frame to accomplish or abandon this concept.
     
  11. MechaNik
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    MechaNik Senior Member

    We know we can generate Hydrogen at varying forms of efficiency. The huge loss has always been what to do with it, this is where the high costs are involved.

    If you read Michael's attached link on Silconfire you can see that people are already commercially binding hydrogen with Carbon dioxide from atmosphere to make a known High Density hydro carbon fuel that we already know how to use.
     
  12. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    I'm guessing she meant it dissipates quickly upwards, not down into the bilges like Propane or Gasoline.

    \ For this property Aceteline does fine.

    A hand full of rocks in a bucket of water , FUEL?

    FF
     
  13. truecougarblue
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    truecougarblue Junior Member

    First, congrats to the Cougars on their win today over Tulsa, very exciting.

    The broad concept of the system I have in mind goes as follows:

    1) The vessel planned is a one off 20M cat, assume that 2ea. 10M^3 pressure tanks have been designed in to each hull.

    2) Each tank is designed for 10 bar pressure, meaning each will max out if filled with 8.9kg so lets call that 18kg total for the vessel.

    3) We'll use 110,000 BTU/kg for effective energy density, which gives us effective system storage of 1.98 million BTU, 580 kWh, or around 780 horsepower hours, though at around 50% efficiency of an ICE we really only have about 390 to work with.

    4) Assume the cat displaces 40 tons and is powered by twin 60hp motors converted to run on the H2. That would give us 3.25 hours full power motoring. Not too bad for back up only use.

    5) Generation of H2 at 50% efficiency through electrolysis means we need 1160kWh of sizzle to fill our tanks. 20ea, 175W panels would give 28kWh in an effective 8 hour day, so (only) 42 days for a full charge.

    Methane or acetylene or a 10 gallon tank of diesel are starting to look more attractive.
     
  14. MechaNik
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    MechaNik Senior Member

    Nice analysis Cougar,

    Yes though as you say the only sad thing still is that all that hydrogen storage can still be replaced with about 65 liters of diesel.
     

  15. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    How about making the hydrogen IN THE CARBUERATOR?

    http://keelynet.com/energy/garrett.htm

    The theoretical power required to produce hydrogen from water is 79 KiloWatts per 1,000 cubic feet of hydrogen gas.
     
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