Hydrogen usage for a boat

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by BertKu, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi there,

    Many times people have told me that it is impossible to extract hydrogen from water cost effective, while I know that Philips in Holland has a patent for years and year, which is kept nicely in the safe to let an automobile drive on it. I am under the impression that it pays handsome to keep it in the safe by the oil Industry, it would harm that industry too much and all the governments and all the retired people who are running a petrol/gas station.

    Here is an article, why can I not use 500 times more powerful solar panels and a 500 x more powerful brushless DC motor and power a boat???

    http://www.gizmag.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-i-h2go-review/29081

    Is it, that the cost of making distilled water is too costly?. Jeremy, any hand you can give me here??
    Bert
     
  2. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Hydrogen will do your boat wonders.

    Fill with Hydrogen, stand back, and light a match.

    :)
     
  3. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Thus you do not allow your son to play with this little car? Are you a smoker ?
    Bert
     
  4. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    >while I know that Philips in Holland has a patent for years and year, which is kept nicely in the safe to let an automobile drive on it. I am under the impression that it pays handsome to keep it in the safe by the oil Industry,<

    The problem with this entire concept (common if you wear an aluminum foil pyramid hat) is some countries do not care a bit about patent laws.

    The Chinese Communist have the ability to read any registered patent (as does anyone else worldwide )

    and have ZERO problems with stealing and using the information as they do not recognise intellictual property rights .

    SO if the Pogue Carb or any of the other 120mpg myths existed they would already be in use for decades.
     
  5. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Very much true, but that little car is really a reality. I also know that BMW brought a prototype car on the market and within a couple of days it was squashed and removed. I personally think the trick is to do the separation in minute small quantities and with small electrodes, right by the intake and carburetor. . What is your opinion about that little car at Gizmag ??
    Bert
     
  6. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I'm no chemist, but so far as I know to break the chemical bonds of hydrogen and oygen as they are in water requires the same amount of energy you get returned in the combustion of hydrogen and oxygen, you only get back what you put in, there is no free kick or magic shortcut.
     
  7. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    So true .... unless you are talking about the Big Bang, all laws of physics really DO apply.

    Stand back and light a match.
     
  8. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Absolute true. But if I look at that little solar panel, it does not look more than
    20 mA at 12 Volt and that at 16 hours charging. What we don't know is how long the car will run on the fuel cell after "re-charging" the battery.
    Bert
     
  9. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    The magic short cut are the solar panels, which supplies the extra power not to make it a free kick. But reading the article again, the efficiency of the whole system is extremely low, thus it is not a proposition. Thanks for the input. Bert
     
  10. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Aren't all patents on public record? If so, why aren't these alleged patents held by oil companies ever shown?
     
  11. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Wally and Skeezix developed a pill long ago that you just dropped in the tank full of water which turned the water into high octane fuel. The development was done in Gasoline Alley in the 1930's. :D

    I don't know who squashed that idea and it was not even patented as far as I know. Patents are all accessible to the public. All you need is the number or some pertinent information to get them.
     
  12. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Hi, Bert.
    The oil industry has the ability to make the cheapest, large economy of scale hydrogen through the water gas method, so they would have everything to gain by converting to hydrogen cars. Electrolysis of water for hydrogen is extremely inefficient in the first place, and even more so because the energy for oxygen which is generated is dumped. The solar cells are a gimmick that don't contribute significantly and add astronomical cost. The complexity of the process and steps necessary will mean continuous repairs required. Hydrogen escapes because nothing, even thick metal high pressure metal tanks can hold this most permeable substance, you'll lose a significant amount of fuel from your tank in a couple of months. Fuel cells have their own issues of complexity and energy density so that it is almost impossible to drive a propulsion system directly, and burning hydrogen in a conventional engine still produces nitrogen oxide pollution, plus the complexity, heavy tanks, permeablity, etc. This is just for starters, yet the concept keeps coming back for the cheap widespread publicity it offers of being different, and cutting edge. Creating a car that runs on hydrogen is not difficult, crushing the evidence you did it is necessary to prevent anyone discovering how foolish and wasteful it has been. I agree about the impossibility of conspiracy to squash inventions and patents in this day and age.

    Other than that, hydrogen and fuel cells are pretty cool concepts that can be used in very specialized niches like the space industry..

    Sorry, just the humble opinions of a retired chemist.

    Porta

     
  13. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Thank you Porta, I had already figured it out that that product was just a gimmick. I still believe in Super Capacitors. One day, One day.
    Bert
     
  14. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Every time I read these sort of things, I'm reminded of an occasion where a particularly gullible friend of mine, had just returned from a "healing" sort of thing, spouting the wonders of this holly man.

    I instantly replied (back in the mid 90's) "if this fellow could do just 10% of the actual healing he said he could, don't you think he would be married, to a multi million contract, with an HMO somewhere?"
     

  15. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    OK, I follow you, it does seem producing hydrogen, storing it, then combusting it, are fraught with technical and safety issues, combine that with doubtful efficiency and it becomes a non-starter.
     
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