Hydrogen Fuel cells for ships

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by schakel, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. schakel
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    schakel environmental project Msc

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  2. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    I worked for a big auto company that put a couple billion dollars in fuel cell development. If the world gets serious about carbon reduction through taxation/regulation FC will get important fast, but not until then. The only ships that might use fuel cells in the near future may be LNG ships running nat gas through bloom box style hot FC. From where we are now with ships burning oil muck untaxed and unregulated the financial hurdle is too high for FC.
     
  3. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    LNG has too many pollutants for present large capacity (platinum grid Molten Carbonate) fuel cell technology. Also cryogenic storage of gasses is wasteful from an energy density aspect.

    Still waiting for a good liquid monofuel fuelcell.
     
  4. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    FCs are used by ocean racers and cruisers as supplemental power to solar. The reason for not running ships on the is that while its an efficient way to make electricity out of fuel (not hydrogen cuz hydrogen has handling probs and energy density probs) - its not an efficient way to generate propulsion out of fuel (you lose efficiency In the fuel cell and then in the electric motor vs, just the adiabatic motor for an Otto cycle engine)
     
  5. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    A basic question - what will be the source of the hydrogen for fueling the vessels?
     
  6. schakel
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    schakel environmental project Msc

    sources for hydrogen

    I was in a task force for this problem at the Technical University Delft so I have a slight advantage.

    One source that we designed in this hydrogen economy as a future energy transmitter is for nuclair.
    Environmental wants nuclair only in highly controlled facilities so not at sea although that is practice right now in some cases. So hydrogen is being produced at a nuclair powerstation by electrolyses of water. The remaining oxygen can be used as a gas to be injected into the greenhouse project that tend to grow bigger and bigger in the world.

    The second source is an extra step in refining of oil. the remaining CO2 will be injected in the same greenhouses. So the greenhouses are the Carbon dioxide and Oxygen reducers of the powerplants. Same counts for Coal and Lignite that can be reduced to electricity for electrolyses, Carbondioxide and a stone/ash fraction.

    Greenhouses will be the main flue gas reduces for the powerplants is the vision. If we can pull this of is the second question. But at least we tried before the big flooding (+ 6 metres seawater rise) to be expected by the Carbon Dioxide rise.

    https://www.google.nl/search?q=gree...-greenhouse-industrial-agriculture%2F;360;203
     

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  7. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    More interesting than pure fuel cells are "flow cells"...
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/uciliaw...hnology-and-a-20m-plan-to-bring-it-to-market/
    http://www.seas.harvard.edu/news/20...ry-promises-breakthrough-for-renewable-energy

    and for addressing greenhouse gasses. the new malto-dextrin fuel cell http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775311008780 holds more promise than hydrogen cells. why? because Malto-dextrin is easily converted from plant starches enzymatically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltodextrin Thus you have a way of having a closed loop carbon cycle
     
  8. Hampus
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    Hampus Junior Member

  9. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Not for propulsion, but for submerged endurance. Their fuelcells are sufficient to cover hotel and minimal maneuvering loads, but they still use the battery and have to snorkle to go anywhere. That type of hybrid system works for a confined area like the Baltic/North Sea, but is useless for transoceanic operations as well as being volume inefficient.

    Schakel states the engineering truth; if you want a lot of clean power, nuclear is the way to go from all the important technical issues. The politics however....
     
  10. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    or sugar... malto-dextrin. Its what we humans and most of animal life runs on. its energy dense, produced solarly and essentially is closed loop carbon cycle. And if you sequester the cellulose you could even have a carbon reducing cycle
     
  11. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    So humans are nuclear powered...:D
     
  12. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    Well of course - all our carbon comes from nuclear processes
     
  13. schakel
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    schakel environmental project Msc

    That is Nuclear Fusion, researched at Iter for a budget of round Euro 1,000,000,000.= and since 1985. They will be ready when we need them is their statement.
     

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  14. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member


  15. schakel
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    schakel environmental project Msc

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