Hydraulic pump on PTO engine

Discussion in 'OnBoard Electronics & Controls' started by B33RND, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. B33RND
    Joined: Jul 2009
    Posts: 23
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    Location: Netherlands

    B33RND Member

    Hello,
    I would like to ask if somebody has experience in building a hydraulic pump on the PTO of a propulsion engine (John Deere). I am planning to feed the steering gear by that pump as well as the bow thruster. Therefore I would like to know how much hp/kw such a pump (the biggest one with AES-B flange) draws from the engine.
     
  2. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    um strange, I ran through the JD option but settled vetus deutz
    I would advise
    go hand hydraulic, ie not eng driven fo steering
    and the go to vetus website for your thruster requirements
     
  3. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    It will draw as much as the load you attach to it
     
  4. B33RND
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: Netherlands

    B33RND Member

    What was the reason you choose for Vetus Deutz? With a hand driven pump you mean a orbitrol whereon the steering wheel is directly attached to? That is what I will do anyway, but specially for steering the boat while on automatic pilot I want to avoid a electrical hydr. pump.
     
  5. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    i chose Vetus deutz, for the strong reliable 4 cylinder
    yes go look for hydrive, , wagner, or vetus hand hyd
    leave belt driven pump alone, In Netherlands you have ALL to access
    Vetus has a big pdf catalogue
     
  6. B33RND
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: Netherlands

    B33RND Member

    You mean to say that if you don't use hydraulic driven things you don't draw hp/kw as well?
    Anyway I am planning to attach a hydraulic bow thruster of 20-25 hp to it which I want to have it able running full power simultaneously with operating a steering gear of 200kgm/300cc. The engine is a John Deere 6068TFM75 (200kW).
     
  7. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    what does that eng cost there
     
  8. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Why ,--you will still need electronically controlled valves for what is an occasional correction of steering, a very small load indeed.

    You will have a pump running big enough for the bow thruster yet all it is doing is auto pilot work.

    The electric hydraulic pumps are easy and will connect up nicely to your fluxgate control.

    Lots of waisted power there. Sledge hammer for a walnut.

    How big is the boat and auto pilot
     
  9. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    If you are asking what the idle resistance is, you need to look at the specifications of the pump you are installing. If not it is like asking how much fuel does a boat use.
     
  10. B33RND
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: Netherlands

    B33RND Member

    John Deere 6068TFM75 with PRM 1000D3 and accumulatorset
    € 21.600,00 excl. 19% VAT (keel cooling)
     
  11. B33RND
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: Netherlands

    B33RND Member

    I indeed need to have electrical power available. But the boat will have a DC power concept. Therefore I don't want to have the autopilot consuming my charged batteries. Second, I wanna have anyway hydraulics on board for the bow thruster and anchor winch and mast.
    The boat is 17 mtr long, I don't know yet which Autopilot I will choose.
     
  12. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    The hydraulic pump does not run all the time unless you use a constant running pump for bigger boats.

    These 12V pumps will use spurts of approx 6 amps and depending on the gain setting they will pump approx 1/2 second in three. A miniscule draw.
     
  13. B33RND
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: Netherlands

    B33RND Member

    I also consider a hydraulic system as more reliable and a more flexible solution: It is always possible to expand the system as soon as you have a basic system. Perhaps I decide to install two pumps: one on the engine PTO for steering and one on the gearbox which is 'clutchable' for the bowthruster etc.

    Another question: Does anybody has experience in the noise produced by such hydraulic pumps/sytems and is a oil cooler always required?
     
  14. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Location: Ontario

    marshmat Senior Member

    Hydraulic oil coolers are often necessary, but not always. Hydraulic pumps and motors all have preferred oil viscosity ranges; as oil heats up, it loses viscosity. Your pump/motor supplier of choice should be able to provide you with the appropriate charts and formulae for the parts you choose.

    Most engine-driven hydraulic pumps, IMHO, should be of the variable-displacement variety, under some form of load sensing control. There are about half a dozen common ways of doing load-sensing; again, your supplier should be able to point you to the version that is appropriate for the pump you choose. If the pump is only going to be used for a bow thruster, a clutched fixed-displacement pump might provide adequate service for your needs. In all cases, there are fairly simple equations for relating the torque, power, pressure, displacement, RPM and flow rate of whichever hydraulic pump or motor you choose.

    The problem with engine-driven power steering is that if your engine dies for any reason- most likely wet or dirty fuel- you loose steering as well. With electric pumps, they won't consume battery life while the engine's running (since the alternator is providing all the DC at that point), but they also won't shut your steering down if the engine stops.

    I've been hearing some good things about WH autopilots ( http://www.whautopilots.com/ ) for larger boats with hydraulic steering, but I have yet to get my hands on one to see if the hype is for real.
     

  15. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    http://www.frenchmarine.com/ProductsC.aspx?CID=82
    big saving, plus the mtgs sit higher up the block, so you can get the eng lower
    BUT JD is a very good eng
    I did not buy cos JD France wanted too much, and would not give a builders discount, those prices above in French marine are retail;
     
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