Hydraulic or cable for steering?

Discussion in 'Inboards' started by mongo75, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. mongo75
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    mongo75 Senior Member

    Am I limited to hydraulic steering only for a 25' or can I use cable too?
     
  2. Ausiwik
    Joined: May 2007
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    Ausiwik Junior Member

    Hi Mongo
    I'm actually in the same delemar my self between a Morse /telflex system or Hydraulic (on a 25ft ) my problem is that the boat I have built is a trawler Type and I want to put in an Auto pilot.
    These work fine with Hydraulic system (Ive used them previously on sailboats )
    But I think all the morse /teleflex systems have some sort of anti feed back device which would fight any in put from any auto pilot ram >
    Im not totally sure about this function but some thing you may consider
    http://marshalldesign.blogspot.com
    Steve Marshall
     
  3. TerryKing
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    TerryKing On The Water SOON

    Why not?

    Cable has been used for years on quite large boats! The 50 foot traditional trawlers I'm seeing here in China all seem to have wheel-drum-cable steering...
     
  4. mongo75
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    mongo75 Senior Member

    Thanks for the replies Steve and Terry. I actually meant a Teleflex system- I use cable in aircraft, only because I have to! However, you reminded me that I also would like auto pilot. Although the ocean is a huge wide open space, I still find it somewhat discomforting to take my eye off the "road" for more than a few seconds- you never know when a freighter might lose a connex box. Actually it'll turn that pretzel shaped line on my GPS to something more straight too LOL
     
  5. Ausiwik
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    Ausiwik Junior Member

    Hi Mongo
    I'm actually looking to use this auto pilot as an alternate steering station with a hand remote and if the boat is inboard and your not trying to move a large OB then even the smallest piolt would work on a 25ft if rudder load is light and not for high speed maneuvers.
    Say a small electric arm type as used on sailboats. It would just mean creating a disconnect devise or lifting off the arm as is done with a sail boat.
    It would also mean the boat could be steered from the cockpit and that would be convenient .
    There may well be morse/teleflex systems that don't include the anti feed back as I'm sure that feature was aimed at controlling OB motors.
    If you go with hydraulic route you can incorporate a bypass valve to free up steering or just let it remain and turn the main helm when the auto pilot is operating.
    Steve M
     
  6. mongo75
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    mongo75 Senior Member

    Steve,
    I thnk I might just go ahead and spend the money on hyd steering, so I can use an autopilot. I've never had one before and think it's about time I "move up" in options.

    Danny
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You can install auto pilots on the "anti-feed back" systems and Teleflex does sell a non-feed back system too. Cable is a lot cheaper then hydraulic systems and a lot lighter.
     
  8. Ausiwik
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    Ausiwik Junior Member

    Hi Par
    That really was just my assumption with the anti feed back, that if the steering box (for want of a better word ) offered resistance to an out board motors side force it would be an unacceptable pressure resistance on a small auto pilot ram which drives on the tiller arm.
    I know the mor/tel cable system is cheaper and I was attracted to it my self and have provide an easy run for one. (cable )

    Ill check further with manufactures, they have certainly been around for a while so there system should be reliable
    I have preciously only ever used chain and cable on setting up yacht steering.
    Steve Marshall
     
  9. mongo75
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    mongo75 Senior Member

    PAR- could you recommend any systems that would work on a cable set up?
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Teleflex doesn't recommend a non-feedback system for autopilot equipped rigs, though the clutch can be backed off by any competent mechanic.

    The "Safe-TII", "Safe-T-Quick", "The Rack" and "4.2 Rotary" systems (all Teleflex) will all perform you steering duties. They range in price from about $170 to $230 (retail) in cable lengths up to 20'. These are complete systems, less the steering wheel.

    Without further information about your boat, it would be tough to comment more. Some installations require a small helm, others have tight spaces at the stern. Cable lengths over 20' may have to be custom ordered. You may require mounting brackets, possibly having custom ones made up, end fittings and other attachment issues can crop, without knowing what you have.
     
  11. mongo75
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    mongo75 Senior Member

    Gotcha PAR- what about the actual autopilot system- who makes one that works with a cable steering? I understand how a hyd system works, but I've never seen autopilot on a cable setup before.
     
  12. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    What year boat, model, drive, type of steering, etc? A push-pull (tiller) autopilot can be made to steer just about anything, you just need to know how much power you need from the unit.
     
  13. mongo75
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    mongo75 Senior Member

    Well, it's a boat I will be getting withing the next month or so. It's a 1968 25' Luhrs flybridge. Basically I plan on starting from a bare hull up (I love building) Hence all the questions, as I can pretty much go in any direction on this. However, I will not go open-cable steering. I leave cable rigging to aircraft controls. My main two considerations are cost, and getting it right the first time. I knew you could get a tiller auto for sailboats, but I didn't know if they could be used on a powerboat, seeing as how I would want whatever unit I choose to be a permenant part of my steering system.
     
  14. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Outboard or inboard, year, manufacture?

    The cable systems are very reliable. I pulled one off an early 70's flats boat several months ago, with hopes for future use. I took it apart, inspected (a rack system) and greased it up. It had never seen any maintenance, having the original, turned to hard wax like goo for grease still inside, yet it still worked fine. It did "hang" a touch, but once the rust was removed from the slide and a zerk installed and greased up, it worked perfectly. These type of systems are also much cheaper then hydraulic and easier to install.

    When you get your boat, you'll have considerable fabrication to perform, possibly including a steering bracket or two. These things will become quite obvious, as you assemble equipment and begin installation.
     

  15. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    He has a fly bridge!!! how will a cable go on two stations.

    I don't know the boat but if you have two rudders the conversation is over --hydraulics. Fitting dual stations is a simple matter with most sytems having automatic check valves meaning iether station can be used without prior selection --even together.

    I would'nt necessarily agree that cable is easier than hydraulics. Cables need a secified radius that cant always be accomodated . Hydraulic lines can be plastic or copper pipe in which case 90degree compression fittings can be used and tied flat to the hull.

    Leverage of the rudders can also be adjusted to suit by simply altering ram leverage position

    An auto pilot on hydraulics is a doddle.
     
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