Hybrid marinising

Discussion in 'DIY Marinizing' started by crowsridge, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. crowsridge
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 141
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Eugene, Oregon

    crowsridge Senior Member

    Hello gang, I've been pondering going electric or hybrid on the boat I've been building. I had planned on a 250hp outboard in my original plans. But, here lately it's been nagging me to rethink that.

    I like hybrid so I have less battery and have backup power. I saw a video of a Toyota Prius drivetrain on a rack and it got me thinking. I went to a salvage yard to look at the Prius option. Then I found the Toyota Highlander hybrid. Not much bigger than the Prius but 286-305hp depending on year. Prius is only 121hp.

    After being excited, I remembered the safety rules and the bubble went flat. But! There is no carburetor or alternator and the starter is 100% enclosed. The fuel pump is in the tank I believe, so what is left?
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 7,568
    Likes: 244, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    You are right to prioritize safety, but I'm not sure how practical this idea really is, for the marine application. You really have a high constant duty task with a planing boat, that might be compared in the automotive application, to going up a constant steep hill at high speed, fast enough to get a ticket. Would a hybrid car be suited to that, is a question to ask.
     
  3. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 1,965
    Likes: 142, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 506
    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    As a hybrid driver, I can't see how an automotive type hybrid would work in boat, it relies a great deal on regenerative power, which is almost non existent on a boat.
     
  4. crowsridge
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 141
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Eugene, Oregon

    crowsridge Senior Member

    Mr. E, that's one of the questions. My brother says his Prius does very well where he lives. Steep long grades and high winds on the interstate in the gorge. I've read that regeneration only plays a small part in recharging in a Prius and very little in the Highlander SUV. In fact you can turn it off in the Highlander at the expense of running the gas motor more to regen.. I keep reading horsepower is horsepower whether it's from gas, diesel or electric. The difference being where the power band is. So if the Highlander has 305hp, why won't it drive a boat prop?

    I'm perfectly okay to hear it won't work. But I'm looking for good info to base it on. I've also read there are 3-4 types of hybrid drives. Toyota Synergy Drive sounds like it's a better fit than others.

    Ondarvr, is braking that much of a supply in you vehicle?



    Thanks
     
  5. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 7,568
    Likes: 244, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    These vehicles are a marvellous innovation, but it is a step up to propel a planning boat, a big step in fact. You are basically going to be running a boat as if it was driven by direct IC engine power, with the electrics and battery little more than excess baggage, unless you are talking very short hops.
     
  6. crowsridge
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 141
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Eugene, Oregon

    crowsridge Senior Member

    Understood. Most of our fishing is trolling. There have been days that I never started the main motor. Just used the trolling kicker. But it's a 2 stroke and stinks when the wind is wrong. I was looking at adding a bow mount trolling motor to my power group, but, that has limitations and a stiff price tag all in. The hybrid option just seemed like a cool option. Maybe it won't fly, but I want to look hard at it.
     
  7. crowsridge
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 141
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Eugene, Oregon

    crowsridge Senior Member

    I'd really like to pair it with the trimmable surface drive. Multiple reasons, but less load is a good portion. That trimmable drive being able to back up to the beach instead of climbing over the bow is huge!
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 7,568
    Likes: 244, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Even with trolling, it would depend on the duration, and particularly the speed. If it is only 2 or 3 knots, it might have some attraction. And particularly if you are in shallow water, with easily spooked fish.
     
  9. crowsridge
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 141
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Eugene, Oregon

    crowsridge Senior Member

    My son has discovered walleye fishing and claims electric is the only way to go?
     
  10. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 1,965
    Likes: 142, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 506
    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    90% of the charging takes place during braking and/or when coasting down hill, the gas motor just sort of maintains the battery level, with just a very slow actual charging affect. On mine if you pick the correct screen on the dash it shows you which motor is running, how much power each one is producing, the level each one is contributing to powering the car, the level of charging while coasting and braking, battery level, discharge rate, etc. So you get a very good idea of what's going on all the time


    I live on the west coast with several mountain ranges that I cross frequently, once on an incline the electric motor becomes almost useless, you're running on gas, so for anything but trolling, and only for a short time, the electric power would be a waste. And when I say a short time, in the car you don't run for long periods of time on the battery, it drains down quickly, and that's on level smooth pavement with little drag. And when is the battery going to be recharged, the gas motor does some recharging, but not under a heavy load, which is how it would constantly be used in a boat. Under the heaviest load the electric motor kicks in and helps out, which will further drain it. I don't see a time while boating that the batteries will be charging.

    My fishing boat has a main motor, gas kicker, plus an electric bow mount with autopilot, this is a simple proven design and a far cheaper set up than what you propose. I can troll with the electric for about 8 hours straight and still have time left if needed.

    If you don't like your current 2 stroke you can always get a 4 stroke.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  11. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 7,568
    Likes: 244, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I'm no expert on hybrid vehicles, but I expect they are better suited to stop-start city motoring, a planing boat is far from that.
     
  12. crowsridge
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 141
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Eugene, Oregon

    crowsridge Senior Member

    Well, that pretty much gives me my answer. I did take the 2 strokes off, changed from 20" shaft to 30". The dealer talked me into going to the 300hp main because it comes standard with features I'd have to pay extra with the 250. Then a 15hp kicker and a MK Riptide Ulterra. That trio runs 30k installed. Salvage Highlander complete clip with everything I need was 3k. Now, that didn't include the surface drive, but I have the parts and a good share of it built already. So, it did look attractive for the hybrid route for the reasons above. I guess the' "if it sounds to goo to be true" applies here too.

    Thanks!
     
  13. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 7,568
    Likes: 244, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Marinising your hybrid engine, safely and effectively, is a big task too, there has to be a big pay-off to justify being a 'pathfinder", and it is not immediately obvious here.
     
  14. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 7,568
    Likes: 244, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    As an aside, I wonder what there is to be said in favour of running twin drives on boats that need them (cats) that are electrics, driven by one engine generating the power. Ignoring set-up cost, I wonder whether there is a gain in efficiency there.
     

  15. crowsridge
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 141
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Eugene, Oregon

    crowsridge Senior Member

    It's funny you mention a cat. That is the next build I think. Oldest son is convinced they're the best. The guys that have them seem to believe it.

    I've been reading about the Seasled version. The negative I found was it doesn't scale down well. Whic h may kill it for me. I'd like a 24-26 foot version.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.