Hybrid Electric Boat with large Wind Generator

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by rainmaking, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. rainmaking
    Joined: Jan 2014
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    Location: Florida

    rainmaking Junior Member

    I am at the conceptual stage of this idea and it needs a lot of work. I would like to take a FRP or aluminum boat and, among other things, redesign its superstructure, give it a more efficient displacement hull bottom, and change its power and propulsion. Adding the wind turbine is a major consideration, as it would be around 3000 lbs some 42 feet off the water. This doesn't include the generator.

    I have started modeling something just to try to do feasibility on stability, but I am not sure what the hull below the waterline should look like. I have seen displacement designs that have a rather squarish chine-like form and others more like a sailboat and round. I am not opposed to a ballasted keel but it should be retractable as I don't have tremendous depth available.

    Here are some general ideas about the project (just starting points):
    -110' LOA
    -20' beam
    -2 x 300kW electric pod propulsors
    -70kW Inerjy vertical wind generator--3000lbs centered about 42' above waterline
    -2500kWh LiFePO battery bank--60,000lbs.
    -3 or 4 200kW diesel generators 3 phase variable speed
    -garage deep in bow for large center console and other toys, 10,000 lbs
    -70kW water current turbine that retracts into hullsides
    -ballasted keel with active control--kind of like a gyro stabilizer without the spinning
     
  2. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    I a m not sure what type of power you expect out of the wind generator but my suspicion is that you have massively overspecced the engines. For a very slippery hull of this size you need something like 250-275hp total.

    I would highly recommendation taking a look at Steve Dashew's FPB 115 as a starting point. But really you need to hire a NA. Some of what you are planning is so far removed from typical boats that it is critical to get someone onboard that can start preliminary design sketches.
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    The problem with an active control is that it continuously uses power. The wind generators are going to create a heeling force similar to a large sail, so you need a fair amount of righting force. Also, there has to be some way to take down or otherwise depower the generators or the ship will capsize in high winds.
     
  4. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    MM is in of itself can be interesting,but being practical a new Gunboat 60 would be cheaper and faster.
     
  5. rainmaking
    Joined: Jan 2014
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    Location: Florida

    rainmaking Junior Member

    Stumble, thanks for your comments. I have looked at the FPB115 before and there are many things I like, and a few that I don't. The sailboat hull shape doesn't lend itself very well to a lot of usable space....the boat garage would be not possible among other things.

    Also it seems the very rounded hull does not have a significant change in CB as the vessel rolls, something normally corrected easily with stabilizers but much more difficult with a high CG caused by a turbine tower.

    The reason for the high power is because I realize there might need to be tradeoffs to get what I am looking for and I figure the hull won't end up as efficient as something like a FPB115. I do not expect to get more from the turbine than it is capable of, I know its power curve very well. As P Flados said in another thread, a cruising boat that does not need to be on the move all the time could benefit from this kind of power system.
     
  6. rainmaking
    Joined: Jan 2014
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    rainmaking Junior Member

    Gonzo, good observation. I will have to do a little more math on the actively controlled ballast but I need to make some assumptions on how far I would need to 'swing' it. My gut tells me a 10k lb ballast could be swung back and forth as needed, total travel about 10' and period around 8 seconds, with a kW or two. That should be a pretty bad case too, certainly not anchored. The beauty of that would be the heeling effect you are talking about would be offset by the mass's position and not require extra energy.

    As for the storm wind, our turbine design already has that base covered. The machine has a 'weathervane' mode with very low normal forces in strong winds.
     
  7. rainmaking
    Joined: Jan 2014
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    Location: Florida

    rainmaking Junior Member

    WVH, you are speaking a different language. I do not understand your post.
     
  8. Skyak
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Skyak Senior Member


    I don't think you fully appreciate what he was saying. 3000lbs 42ft above the water is quite a load. 10,000 swinging how far below the water 14ft? 20ft? will not be able to keep your boat from rolling wild from waves of the right frequency. Does this turbine comprehend 180 wind shifts every second or two?

    Does the turbine need to be 42ft up? Gonzo is right, consult a NA ASAP.
     
  9. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    MM,contraction of mental ************:mental ************ (uncountable)
    (slang) Engaging in intellectually stimulating conversation with little or no practical purpose.

    A new Gunboat 60 is $3m,used large ocean ready trawler can be had for $1.5 to $2m.

    To build this complicated thing would be $5m++ and years,plus 3-4 crew,you'd need to circumnavigate ~40-50 times to burn the price difference in fuel,with a trawler.

    Or get a Gunboat,invest the difference and live like a king anyways.

    May I suggest this:
    http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200.../Vancouver-(on-our-docks)/Canada#.UshyJieGnPU
     
  10. rainmaking
    Joined: Jan 2014
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    rainmaking Junior Member

    WVH--I see!
    The boats you suggest are nice vessels indeed, however; neither will do these things:
    -hold a 30' CC inside a humidity controlled garage plus jet skis and other toys
    -be able to dock alone using a remote controlled joystick
    -sit at anchor for days in hot weather while adding to available energy supply rather than depleting it
    I do understand your logic however and the trawler you selected is really nice!
     
  11. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: Hobart

    pdwiley Senior Member

    The boat you think you want to build won't do any of those things either, because it is not seaworthy and will never be built.....

    If you want a floating toy barge, that's one thing. If you want a blue water capable boat, that is another thing. If you want to combine both with the illusory aim of a zero nett energy use vessel, see mental ************....

    PDW
     
  12. rainmaking
    Joined: Jan 2014
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    Location: Florida

    rainmaking Junior Member

    Skyak-
    Would a 150,000 lb boat really be susceptible to a 0.5-1 Hz roll frequency? I don't really get your question about the turbine but it is a pitch-controlled VAWT and its control updates blade pitch hundreds of times a second based on rotor position, wind direction, speed, etc. Some slow roll will not impact performance.
    Maybe it doesn't need to be 42' up...its wind sensors need to be in clean air but we can probably get that at the bow and stern. The blade protrudes 5m down (and up) from the hub and the radius is 9.5 m.
     
  13. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Stumble Senior Member

    On a boat this size a 20kw generator isn't even typically large enough to run ships loads let alone putting power back into the grid. I think you are looking at spending a huge amount of money to get negligible pay back if any. Not to mention unless the boat is at least as wide as the turbine you couldn't run it at the dock anyway.

    And I promise you your neighbors will hate your guts. These things are noisy when up close.
     
  14. rainmaking
    Joined: Jan 2014
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    rainmaking Junior Member

    Stumble our turbine is dead quiet, and I said nothing about a 20kW generator. We would not run the turbine while docked.
     

  15. rainmaking
    Joined: Jan 2014
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    Location: Florida

    rainmaking Junior Member

    This is a similar idea of a foredeck garage.
     

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