Hurricane Sandy

Don't be so testy and presumptuous, Frosty. I never suggested doing anything without Park Department authorization (or in the case of the maple, permission of The Fieldston School). Perhaps I should rephrase the question: what's the best use the New York Parks Department could put it to? What about fallen trees that are on ones own property? What about fallen trees that are blocking roads? What about neighbor's trees that have fallen on your property? What about neighbors' trees that have fallen on your house?

 

Don't need a chainsaw licence here in Canada either. As for the fallen trees, that wood might come in handy for heating fuel before this whole mess is cleaned up and all the electrics are back in order. If for nothing else to heat up the on site construction shacks. The cold weather is not far off.

 

Bounty spokesman:

"Bounty's current voyage is a calculated decision...NOT AT ALL... irresponsible or with a lack of foresight as some have suggested.
The fact of the matter is...
A SHIP IS SAFER AT SEA THAN IN PORT!
In the next few posts I will try to quell some fears and help to explain some of the dynamics that are in Bounty's favor."



Storms forecast path on the day they left port:



Monday morning quarterbacking or is there something wrong with that picture and the "calculated decision"?
Is the fact that the boat had no choice but to sail directly into storm part of the "dynamics in Bounty's favor"?
The storms track was known at sailing of the Bounty and there were no surprise shifts.. What the hell?

Is it explained by this mess:

"Many people possibly don't understand that your best option it to go out to sea and ride the storm out. With the storm sails set she will ride out anything that the weather wants to throw at her. With a strong hand on the helm she can almost run free! She is a fine vessel and as long as you have faith in her, she will never let you down!"

Too many Hornblower novels?
A Wooden Ships and Iron Men culture....?

 

The Capt has in the end paid the ultimate price for his apparent arrogance or incompetence.

There was a very good book authored by a US solo sailor, I can't remember his name but he had a philosophy that was similar to that hammered into me by my father about boats & sailing and probably most everything else I do.

Fill a box with credit points there for when needed which is basically think about what you intend doing then max your preparations.

And its always the little things that count, 'I'll do that later' will invarible come back to bite you on the arse because it wasn't ready or on hand when it was needed the most.

I often watch the 70ft trawler fleet arrive in port, every boat unloads their catch then skipper and crew go home, no one services the deck gear, no one attends to preventive maintenance - its a wait till it breaks reactive mind set.

 

"Many people possibly don't understand that your best option it to go out to sea and ride the storm out. With the storm sails set she will ride out anything that the weather wants to throw at her. With a strong hand on the helm she can almost run free! She is a fine vessel and as long as you have faith in her, she will never let you down!"

Sounds like a quote by a monied up somebody who spends all their sail time in the Yacht Club

 

If a tree falls into your yard, you don't have to contact anyone, in order to cut it up how ever you like. Simply put, it's yours. The same is true of branches overhanging your property, from a tree on another property, you can chop away without regard.

If it's on a public space, the local government is obligated to handle it. An HOA may get involved if applicable, but for the most part common sense rules, with fallen trees. I've collected dozens over the years, never paying anyone for any of them.

 

But he wasn't. He did this for a living, and had been master of the Bounty for years. Unfortunately, I think that like a lot of people who are attracted to working on replicas, he got a little too into the 'romance' of what he was doing.

I vaguely remember a Bolger comment about the English fishing boats who stormed in and out of poorly protected harbors under nothing but sail for generations, until engines came along. It's telling that they abandoned those sails in a heartbeat, as soon as they had something better...

Not a whole lot of room for sentimentality, when your boat is your livelihood.

 

QUOTE=watchkeeper
Many people possibly don't understand that your best option it to go out to sea and ride the storm out. With the storm sails set she will ride out anything that the weather wants to throw at her. With a strong hand on the helm she can almost run free! She is a fine vessel and as long as you have faith in her, she will never let you down!"

I'll edit my previous to:
'Sounds like a quote one would expect from a monied up somebody who spends all their sail time in the Yacht Club

 

OK, I'll admit I'm easy to confuse sometimes. But that looks like the exact quote I responded to.... what have I missed?

 

I don't spend my time in a yacht club and can assure you his decision was reasonably sound, particularly without hindsight working for him. It wouldn't have been my choice, though I understand the rational behind his and he was perfectly capable of understanding the abilities of his vessel. He wasn't romantic, though he did likely care a great deal about "his ship". Professional skippers don't wax romantic about the vessels they work on, but they do gain an affinity and affection for them, which is wholly different than putting on rose colored glasses and shoving off.

 

It's only stealing if it isn't his and he doesn't get permission first. On private property I think the average homeowner would be ready to kiss him, if he offered to remove a fallen tree without charging for the service.

And as bad as some municipalities get, the US isn't England yet -- where everything short of breathing has been declared a public hazard by one idiot council or another. So your comments about public danger, noise pollution and the lack of an imaginary chainsaw license are pure fantasy.

It isn't trespassing if you have permission to be there -- and something you've been given permission to remove is hardly stolen goods.

Taking wood off public lands could be a little more complicated, depending on whether it's local, state or federal property. But it couldn't hurt to ask. And frankly, sometimes it's easier to gain forgiveness than it is to ask permission....

 

Troy, it was my miss read. I thought bntii's quote was by a second (company) person not the Capt.
I also take your point, he was clearly a highly experienced skipper which makes no sense of his actions.

Why on earth would he maintain a planned departure and course heading when under manned into a very serious known weather condition, a recognizable threat to the safety of his vessel and lives of his crew.

Had he survived he may have faced a hearing for wrongful deaths as have Captains in the past under similar circumstances.

 

Poop. A captains primary responsibility is for the safety of his crew and passengers. Not the slab of wood he is sailing on. This is the reason that captains of passenger carrying vessels must be licensed. The Bounty captain disregarded his responsibility to pursue ..ADVENTURE in a hurricane.

Run your thoughts by the Coast Guard Accident Investigation Panel if you need clarification.

 

Par, I own a 25m Classic timber ketch that I have owned since 2004, I took the vessel over and spent way too much money rebuilding her to my design.
I have had amazing and increadible sometimes scary times first learning to sail her and later solo sailing.
She is one of my bigger achievements and I have absolute faith in the boat and my ability but I would never have made the same decision - and unlike a 110ft Collier Brig I can hove to, drop a sea anchor and hull down to ride it out safely barring a end over end.

I believe he underestimated the severity/speed of the approaching weather, over estimated his vessels ability to manage such conditions and seriously overestimated both his ability and that of his small crew to manage the conditions.

As a Capt I suggest that under the circumstances he would under Admiralty Law or USCG Rules have a case to answer too had he survived.

 

Its impossible to underestimate or encounter unforseen severe weather phenomenon. As Captain we have access to multiple environmental sources and full time 100 percent reliable sat com communications. For technical off season passages I even have access to private weather advisers who interpret the various forcasts, feed it into computer routing software then advise me on strategies to avoid getting killed. On a recent passage the routing advisor introduced his guidance with the note...ARE YOUR CREW AND VESSEL UP TO THESE CONDITIONS