Hull Design software

Discussion in 'Software' started by Tom.B, Jun 1, 2004.

  1. marlin115
    Joined: Jun 2004
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    Location: italy

    marlin115 New Member

    software for boat construction

    Sorry for my bad English.
    Wath's the difference betweeen engineering software and hull design software?
  2. BillB
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Cudjoe Key Fl

    BillB BillB

    difference betweeen engineering software and hull design software

    The difference betweeen engineering software and hull design software, in my opinion, is Engineering Software builds the boat from the shadow to launch, with specs for every part. Hull Design sw is just a artists rendering package, that may do flow specs, but will not be able to spec parts.
    This may be a simple view, but it depends on the size of the sw package.

    I have a copy (old version) of Auto Ship, that is so over kill for hull design, I don't have that many years left to learn it all!

    I still like using clay for modeling! It ture 3D....HA!

  3. BillB
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Cudjoe Key Fl

    BillB BillB

    I just received this "reply". I do not know who sent it, but I must suggest the person buy Reading 101 ASAP! All I said was, using clay for hull shapes was a easier way than using a computer, but only for getting a fast idea of what one wants to build. The clay method was used with station lines and graphed cards to get contours for lofting. Now that computers can print out print or better control CAM cutters, this is obsolete. However, clay or whatever medium one works in for a real life 3D model (see the Auto Industry, the Aircraft Industry, etc ) will give much more reality than a 2D monitor screen. So replier, don't get your ruffles ruffled, and insult people . Read the written words, not what your ego imagines is there.
    Bill B (66, retired)

    BillB[/QUOTE]Bill B must have a great deal of faith in his white clay. I've never seen clay that will give you shell thicknesses or bolt diameters, either.

    I have been fairing hulls for over twenty years. I was the original guinea pig for AutoShip, wrote my own fairing program (BaseLine) and eventually migrated to Rhino, where I've been since Rhino 1.0.

    Now, Rhino never claimed to be able to calculate bolt diameters, but white clay cannot hope to deliver surfaces to a 5-axis mill, the way a surface modeling program can.

    Most modelers have tools that reflect such minor discrepancies in surfaces, that if they report that a surface is fair, you can count on it being fair. These tools include gaussian curvature analysis, highly reflective surfaces, etc.

    Hull Design software is more than a modeler for pretty pictures. It can generate data files for calculating hydrostatics and stability (unlike clay). It can also generate data files that can and have been used to mill entire hulls in foam on a 5-axis milling machine. It can generate background curves that can be used in a CAD program to detail any and all parts of a boat.

    The most telling line in your response, BillB, is that you don't have enough time left to learn it. What you don't say is you don't have the desire to learn it.

    I still remember when I had been drawing boats in AutoCAD 2.17 for about a year, my boss stating emphatically "We'll never draw boats on a computer". Well, the future has arrived and computers have displaced splines, ducks and, yes Bill, even clay.
  4. Dutch Peter
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Dutch Peter Senior Member

    I think you stepped on somebodies toes BillB, but I feel it is a bit cowardly by the anonymous emailer not to post the reply on the forum.

    I think a engineering program is about determining the structure (location and properties), while hull design software is about the outer shape and its properties (much like the anonymous emailer described).
    The amount of data that can be acquired from either program depends on many factors.
  5. sorenfdk
    Joined: Feb 2002
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    Location: Denmark

    sorenfdk Yacht Designer

    Well, Bill, your answer to marlin115 was wrong - perhaps that's what put the anonymous replier off!

    First of all there is no engineering software package that can do specs for every part of a boat.
    Secondly, hull design packages are much more just artists' rendering packages, in fact only some of them actually do rendering. Read the "reply" you got!

    At your age, you have - I hope ;-) - plenty of time left to learn how to save a lot of time by using a computer to do all those tedious, but necessesary calculations, that you can't do with clay.
  6. BillB
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Cudjoe Key Fl

    BillB BillB

    Clay 101

    Well people, I’ve had it with this forum. Reason, you cannot understand what is written! Twisting the point seems to be a trend today, and that is a shame. Good By!
  7. Andrew Mason
    Joined: Mar 2003
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    Location: Perth, Western Australia

    Andrew Mason Senior Member

    Please note that Bills reply came from CEstes. I also received it as part of an email stating that the thread had been updated - I think CEstes has posted in good faith but it looks like there has been a problem with the forum registering the post.

    By the way Bill, I agree with CEstes. Hull design software performs the function of defining the hull shape to a high level of detail. This is done to a sufficient accuracy to allow frame outlines to be defined, plating to be developed, stiffener paths to be created, hydrostatics and stability to be calculated, together with accurate resistance and seakeeping properties.

    Your assertion that hull design packages are just for doing artists rendering is simply ill informed and at odds with what the way the vast majority of professionals in the marine industry now work.
  8. cestes
    Joined: Apr 2002
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    Location: Redmond, WA

    cestes Junior Member

    Well, BillB, sorry to hear you don't cotton to dissenting opinions. You made all kinds of assertions about how using Marine software would not solve all a designer's problems (never said it would) and the original poster would be better off using clay.

    What conclusion should I have drawn? I haven't gotten my "ruffles ruffled", simply supplied the thread with yet another opinion.

    Those of us in the Marine Industry who must make a living and who have continued to improve our services to our clients have long ago realized that a lump of clay can't be delivered to a client like design drawings can. It also can't be made to do anything but represent the boat in three dimensions.

    In order to do lofting from this lump of clay, it must be full size, or the templates taken from it suffer from scaling errors. Because of these errors, NC cutting is out of the question.

    Sorry to hear of your exit from this forum. It provides a wonderful outlet for the amateur to talk to the professional and vice versa. If the original poster only only heard the one viewpoint "use clay" and no others, he might never try anything new. Now, I realize that may be the way when you are "66,retired", which is not all that old, but in the real world, we move forward or stagnate and die (not literally, of course).

    Lastly, no insult was intended. I tend to speak my mind and let the chips fall...

    Cliff W Estes
    BaseLine Technology
    Rhino reseller and user.

  9. Dutch Peter
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Dutch Peter Senior Member

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