Huevo_12_Foot_Passage_Maker

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by kvsgkvng, Feb 26, 2012.

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WHat do you think about this boat?

  1. Will this boat float?

    80.0%
  2. Will this boat be a fine fishing boat on a lake?

    20.0%
  3. Will this boat accommodate a husband and wife?

    20.0%
  4. Will this boat be able to sail in protected and coastal waters?

    60.0%
  5. Will this boat make trans-Atlantic journey?

    20.0%
  6. Will this boat travel around the world?

    20.0%
  7. Will this boat have enough capacity for all provisions?

    40.0%
  8. Do you like this boat?

    60.0%
  9. Would you add any constructive comments?

    40.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    JosephT Senior Member

  2. bntii
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    bntii Senior Member

    JosephT- what do you think of the BCC's?

    We see many of the factory boats go through here & I hear tales of them sailing far and wide..
     
  3. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Truly one heck of a boat. I'd be a bit leery of recommending it as an amateur construction project. Even with the hull and deck already made, fitting an interior to it would be a challenge. Also, there would be a much higher expectation of getting one's money back upon selling her than there would be for a cruder design of the same proportions.

    With a less than perfect joinery job, the disappointment upon resale value would be heart rending.

    Some things are best left to the pro's. And to people who can actually afford them.

    Is she worth it?

    Yes she is.

    A true classic any designer would all but sell his/her soul to claim for her/his own.
     
  4. sean9c
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    sean9c Senior Member

    Gotta be Greek
     
  5. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    JosephT Senior Member

    They're listed as a bluewater hull, but exceed the length kvsgkvng was looking for to set the non-stop, non-powered solo circumnavigation was not to exceed 20ft, 6in.

    Otherwise, I would consider a boat in the upper 20's to be the minimum for surfing waves in a circumnavigation and a BCC certainly fits the bill.

    http://bluewaterboats.org/bristol-channel-cutter-28/

    After reading stacks of sailing books as long as my leg, at the end of each day it's the daily wave surfing that sailors write about. Oh the joy when a hull glides down each and every wave day in and day out. The smaller boats require too much hands-on time and will wear you out.

    A good comparison is with kayak racing, which I do a lot. A long 21ft ocean surfski tracks very well and stays on course. On the other hand, a short 5ft whitewater kayak has a lot of rocker and veers left/right with each stroke. Conversely, smaller sailboat hulls that have a lot of rocker are much like scaled up whitewater kayaks, with a bit of ballast. In rough seas they can be all over the map on the steering. They are fun for a day in the bay, but a royal pain in the a$$ for a voyage if your goal is to get some place.
     
  6. Milehog
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: NW

    Milehog Clever Quip

    Extremism, even at the minimalist end of the spectrum, is seldom practical though it is probably the whole point of this excercise.
     
  7. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    JosephT Senior Member

    @sharpii2, agree with you any boat should be built with skilled hands. That is a foregone conclusion and another topic for the boat building threads.
     
  8. bntii
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: MD

    bntii Senior Member

    Is this the goal he gunning for?
    I missed that...
     
  9. kvsgkvng
    Joined: Jan 2012
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    kvsgkvng Senior Member

    You are right! Again!

    Who was imagining that my goal is The Circumnavigation? In this boat? Oh, no! Never in this outfit in my life! I am not suicidal yet. But I would want to make a small boat for coastal cruising, when a nice port is two hours away trolling an outboard. If I catch a fish along with it, that would be even better. If this boat could tolerate occasional beating three miles off the shore -- so it would be even more better.

    Basically, I am looking for a light semi-portable boat, made of modern materials such as styrofoam/figerglass sandwich of a minimal thickness, without seams, light, water hose washable, with a few amenities. Stitch ang glue would be the method of construction. That is why the model is made out of flat strips all over. Computer helps a lot for laying out this model precisely. In my firt post I traveled from an idea to the unforlded surface in about two hours. Plot it out in peaces, assemble them by markers and glue; then cut the panels, stitch the and you have the shell. A bracket for an outboard would finish the construction.

    This boat would tire anyone within two-three days, not mentioning a month or two for non-stop Atlantic crossing. When I mentioned long jorneys I meant long jorneys from marina to marina with intermissions inbetween. Day sailing and fishing with occasional overnight camping would be the main purpose of this contraption.

    In essence, it would be a simple shell with some sheltering and living quarters inside. I asked knowledgeable people to point out simple mistakes in very basic hull outlines. Instead I got lecturing on ocean crossings. It is nice but a bit off the topic.

    Actually, it is an interesting subject. I kinda got captivated with it. Maybe in the future I would srcape a few thousand dollars and purchase a used 24~28 footer for better sea going.

    Meanwhile again I thank everyone for their help and mentoring.
    That is all.
     
  10. kvsgkvng
    Joined: Jan 2012
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    kvsgkvng Senior Member

    Some changes to the hull

    I spent some time trying to adjust the hull shape. I wonder if someone would be kind enough to give me some advice. Thank you.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Outlaw45
    Joined: Jan 2012
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    Outlaw45 Senior Member

    this guy is back peddling, I think he is a troller. now look what he came up with. now it's going from marina to the next marina. wow, this is amusing. hey dude, go take a vacation. I am outa of here. he's wasting our time. BYE

    Outlaw
     
  12. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Hi, Kv.

    I don't see anything wrong with this new hull design, other than it doesn't seem to fit its intended purpose (traveling from marina to marina).

    Although I am a fan of long keels, I am not blind to their short comings.

    1.) they have more area compared to shorter keels and boards,
    2.) they generally make maneuvering in tight quarters (marinas) difficult. This is because they resist turning (This becomes a virtue on a long passage),
    3.) they mean deeper draft than with a boat with a retractable 'keel' (a lee board, a center board, a dagger board, or even a 'swing keel'*), an
    4.) they generally need to be ballasted. This is especially true with the one you drew. Phil Bolger once got in trouble with one of his designs. It was a small boat and had a long keel. He didn't see the need to ballast it until, that is, he took the prototype out for a sail. The buoyancy of the long keel subtracted from the boat's stability, making it uncomfortably tender.

    The boat you have drawn here seems to be more complicated than it needs to be. No harm here, but it bears mentioning.

    Below, I'll post a scow design of my own that could do the same thing this boat is supposed to do. It can be easily beached as well and would be much easier to build. It so happens to be a 12 footer.

    I'm only showing you this to open your mind a bit. It is a long standing principle of mine that a boat should be no more complicated, in shape or in set up, than it absolutely has to be, to suite its intended purpose.

    Not everyone shares this viewpoint, and I'm cool with that.

    The boat I'm showing you doesn't quite meet that standard. The stern should be docked about nine inches, so the bottom rudder hing is closer to the waterline.

    I also would like to add that your questionnaire, at the beginning of this thread confused a lot of us on what your goals really are. Hence the lectures about being on the open ocean on a tiny boat.

    *a ballasted centerboard, heavy enough to significantly add to the ultimate stability of the boat.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I have to disagree.

    How the boat is to be built, by whom, and the skill level of the likely builder, should be a fundamental consideration in the design process.

    A crude, but capable boat can be adequately built by less skilled hands than a yacht (or work boat) with a more complicated shape.

    Of the two, I would rather have the crude but capable boat. That is because I haven't spent years developing boat building skill and know I will have to make repairs myself, if they are needed.

    The cruder boat usually takes less time to build, too, even with a skilled builder.
     
  14. kvsgkvng
    Joined: Jan 2012
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    kvsgkvng Senior Member

    Thank you, Sharpii2. I appreciate your calm and neutral reply. It makes it more valuable. I am not sure about others, but it hurts when somebody offends people with abusive language. Why?

    The keel of course would be ballasted. I always meant to use ballasted keel. Actually I was thinking to place batteries in there, under the floor. That is why I needed some girth to it. Most of mainstream small deep cycle batteries are about 7-in wide. The empy area below the bottom of the batteries would be filled with lead. The bow and stern cavities at each end of the batteries would be filled with lead as well. Now that so many shunned at me I even don't know if it good to share.


    I removed the questions in the body of the text and tried to find a trick to remove the actual poll. I could not find any way to remove it. I also tried to find an email addres of the moderator -- same result. If somebody knows how to change this pole, would you please let me know?


    That is a very interesting idea. It definitely stuck in my mind.

    I need to admit that in my initial thoughts there was a hint of an idea to venture further out in the opnen waters. That is why I tried to reflect it in the initial linework. If I understand correctly, if the boat would be capable to take 3~5 foot waves, it would be fine in calmer waters. Looking at my linework with a new perspective, it does indeed resembles an attempt to show blue water boat.

    Thank you for the reference. I looked at the plans and tried to reflect them in my thought process. I attached my linework drawing which I tried to mimic after this great boat. Again, the idea of a wide keel is to keep there all heavy objects, such as batteries, small generator, etc.

    The reason for a bit complex drawings is that I would like to use stitch-and-glue method. I would use 3-mm marine plywood to make the shape and then overlay it with fiberglass as thick as required.

    Again, I kindly ask for any comments. It really helps me in learning.
    Thank you.
     

    Attached Files:


  15. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    JosephT Senior Member

    The hull looks better and the thicker keel is an improvement. DelftShip has a feature to import images from other hulls into your design. I would suggest this:

    1. Find a proven hull you like and use it as a design baseline. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, a good nautical architect will utilize proven designs and tweak them to suit the requirements.

    2. As noted, scale it up/down a bit to meet your displacement requirements.

    3. Tweak it slightly to achieve improved speed, stability, etc.

    4. Collaborate with a reputable nautical architect. When all is good...build it!

    At the moment you're starting pretty much clean sheet with no design baseline reference so it will be a longer, more drawn out process that may go on for months/years until you have all your requirements chiseled in stone.

    Thus, it's really important to get your requirements established first. Important questions like:

    -Where will I sail this boat?
    -What is the max crew?
    -Does it need an engine (e.g. to motor in/out of harbors or get you through the duldrums)?
    -Where will you go to the bathroom?
    -Is a sink necessary for bathing?
    -How long will my planned voyages be? You'll need water tanks & fuel tank capacity to get there.
    -How fast do I want to get there (cruiser racer vs. safer Colin Archer type hull)?

    As you work through your requirements you'll eventually narrow down some candidate design baselines and you can ask yourself a critical question:

    Is it better to design/build from scratch or refit an existing hull (assuming you don't have the cash to buy a new boat)?

    A design/build job is almost always more expensive than refitting an existing hull. Yet, if you really want to design/build your own it's a matter of executing the plan when all your resources are lined up.

    For now, I would suggest finding some candidate hulls to use as a design baseline. You won't be sorry. Unless you're a very seasoned nautical architect starting from scratch will only introduce possible risks & take a lot longer.

    Cheers,

    Joseph
     
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