How to run E-85 biofuel in my outboard?

I think we're almost ready to move to the stage where we recognize that not only is using food to make fuel rather dumb, but it's also not nearly as efficient as using agricultural waste or algae to do the same thing. Once the bugs are worked out of the next-generation ethanol processes, I suspect there won't be much controversy left to argue over.

Frosty- my '94 Johnson 30 calls for "67 octane or better" fuel (do they even make it that crappy?) although it does caution that the fuel lines and pump are not compatible with ethanol blends over 10%. Most engines seem to share the 10% limit. It is my understanding that the main changes in the "flex fuel" engines from Chrysler, GM & friends are alcohol-proof gas lines and gaskets, and some additional ECU code to allow it to adjust the combustion stoichiometry appropriately when using high-ethanol blends.

 

No Ive never heard of 67, what is that parrafin?

I think it may mean 67 or better. You can always use better not worse.

Mercury mod VP engines used 110 octane, the racing guys had to go to the airport to buy it. 25 years ago. Dakotas ran of it with Pratt and whitney 24cylinder engines. I used to steal it for my Jag.

I was reading that there is a water plant that is proliferous and needs little care but is not edable and makes better synthetic fuels.

By the way in Thailand LPG for vehicle gas stations are common along with a new one called NGV,--I dont know what this is but there is a lot of new gas stations being built. LPG is what 99% of the taxis use.

 

Can some of you not read .....[QUOTE=charmc;127957]While 10% ethanol, E10, is OK in modern outboards, generally those built in the last 10 years, E85 is currently not recommended at all. Apart from carb changes, you'd need to change most seals and all non-metallic fuel lines/hoses. Ethanol is a solvent with properties different from those of gasoline. It will destroy most of your existing rubber & plastic seals, hoses, etc, and it will dissolve crud in your existing tank, lines, etc, transferring it to the inside of the engine. If your boat has a fiberglass fuel tank, forget any ethanol blend at all, it will dissolve the resin and leak fuel into your bilge. Another consideration is water in the fuel tank. Water is absorbed easily by E85, leading to corrosion/rust and performance problems, and possible engine damage. Overall, I'd stay away from it until someone with genuine expertise publishes guidlines for conversion. Besides, the reason you need to rejet is because E85 has much lower energy content, so you'll use 20-30% more fuel. Not really accomplishing much, IMHO.

Here are some links with more details:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/107711/boating_tips_is_ethanol_in_your_outboard.html

http://www.theoutboardwizard.com/boat_ethanol_danger_precaution.html[/QUOTE]

 

Thats what pure ethanol will do E85=85% petrol and 15% ethanol is not considered enough to do the damage you are talking about. IMHO

However running out of fuel and needing 1 or 2 tank fulls for the day wont hurt-- IMHO. But if you want to change and run on the stuff constantly then some changes should be made for reliability for going out on water. You are mixing with oil as well which in Thailand gas stations they advise no modifications necessary for 2 strokes, as the oil kinda takes the bite out of it.

A vehicle? stick the stuff in and see, if it stops who cares.

 

I think the cars get away with e85 re the water issue as cars dont have fuel tanks that vent to the atmosphere ( not since the 70's anyway)
and fuel injected ones almost all re circulate as in have a return line so it gets filterd a lot.
Boats dont as the USCG rules will not allow petrol return lines so when it lays in your tank for a few months betwen uses...it could be messy.
Just leave a bowl of acetone un covered and here in Singapore it will pull the moisture out of the air in minutes and you have water in it.
Never noticed that when I lived in Melbourne ( oz)
Frosty
How about a test of your local stuff, put some in a glass and see what happens after a while?

If E10 is 10% ethanol how come E 85 means 15%?

 

E85 here is 85% ethanol, 15% conventional gasoline. When, that is, you can find it. It's still pretty rare. In Canadian/US terminology, 15% ethanol would be E15.

Pure ethanol would have an R+M/2 octane rating of 98, ie. better than any standard gasoline in Canada. But its energy content per unit mass is substantially lower (26.95 MJ/kg for ethanol versus 43 MJ/kg for gasoline), and it needs a lower fuel/air ratio (9.0 instead of 14.6). So in addition to alcohol-proof fuel lines, pumps and gaskets, an E85-capable engine has to be able to adjust the fuel/air ratio to compensate for the different fuel.

Keep in mind that the stuff is essentially non-food-safe moonshine. You don't see a Scotch going bad after several years in the bottle. Ethanol's pretty stable. But if it sits still for a long time, it can absorb water, and can separate out from the petroleum-based gasoline. If your E10-capable engine suddenly gets a shot of water-saturated, separated ethanol from the bottom of a tank that's been sitting a while, it will not be happy.

 

Matt
Thanks for the great info.
Do you think ( like Gale Banks ) that if we geared up for 100% we could make better use of it?
Re smaller but turbo / supercharged engines?

If your Research+Motor/2 is 98 with ethanol what is the best you have now at the pump with that average?

Powerabout

 

If you are willing to pay a dollar-plus a litre, you can get gasoline at R+M/2 = 94 here, but almost everyone runs 87-octane with 10% or less ethanol. I have yet to actually see a station selling E85 but I have heard that there is one in Ottawa.

 

I might have got this wrong, I shall say no more, It may well be that E85 here is 85% ethanol in which case my claim that I use either without noticing any difference is even more astounding.

Cripes Ive been using E85 in my 1400 suzuki motorbike!!!! cripes. I dint notice anything.

 

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Frosty

Thats amazing and nothing has melted yet like fuel lines OR
someone gets a bigger tax break selling 85 over 10....so its std petrol without dye........after all its Asia

 

With it's lower energy density, you do have to burn more to do the same work,

THIS! is why most states demand the use of this crap.

10% poorer gas mileage is 10% higher tax take.

FF

 

I picked up a tank off a motorcycle 2 days ago, It was leaking from the disconnected fuel pipe.

Some E85 touched my skin on my beer belly, I didnt think much of it and just pulled the shirt away from the skin and carried on like you do.

I have a burn mark that you would not believe was from E85. If I told you I leaned on a red hot soldering iron that would look more like it.

It is through the skin and is a 2nd degree burn. I cant believe it myself.

 

actually the logic is that it produces less CO2 although its one of those legislative gaffs that had they bothered to do the math they would have found that all it really doesn't do what was intended

and it costs money that might go towards more effective measures