How to run E-85 biofuel in my outboard?

Ted, wouldn't that be an issue with any gasoline, as most of the pumps now contain at least a 10% mixture?

 

Ethanol's higher (R+M/2) octane rating is basically a wash since it mostly comes from increased 'research' (RON) octane rather than 'motor" (MON) octane rating, indicating poor octane 'sensitivity'. Most users (me included) have not noticed any improvement in anti-knock performance over 93 octane premium (W/O ethanol) vs ethanol blends. Ethanol @ 10% will typically raise the octane of the gasoline to which it is added by 2 to 3 numbers ((R+M)/2) since it has a RON of about 129. Note that it has a MON of only 102.

With it's lower energy density, you do have to burn more to do the same work, as already noted. But owing to its richer stoichiometry, you can make more power by cramming more of it into the engine, which more than overcomes the lower energy density, albeit at the price of very high BSFC numbers. This is how/why you make more power with ethanol, NOT because of increased octane numbers allowing higher compression ratios.

It's the same with nitromethane but taken to an extreme, because it already carries most of the oxygen it needs for combustion. Consequently its stoichiometry is ridiculously rich like around 2:1, so you get to cram LOADS of it through the engine, if you can avoid the whole 'spontaneous disassembly' issue

There are still plenty of good reasons to use ethanol as a motor fuel, but it is quite a different animal than gasoline. Corn-based ethanol will probably never take off in a big way since it is dependent on the caprice of the trading price of two different commodities; corn and crude oil. Crude oil has to be high and corn low for it to make sense to turn corn into ethanol. An unfavorable change in either market and the refiner is screwed, owning great tanks full of ethanol nobody wants.

Jimbo

 

Don't use Al Gore fuel in anything that's not specifically designed for it. E-85 is only cheaper because it's heavily subsidized by our tax money. It's junk fuel and shouldn't be used in any older engines or fuel systems.
If you're a tree hugger and want to use bio-fuels, I'd suggest getting a diesel outboard and running a biodiesel mixture. (I wouldn't use 100% bio just yet, because there are no federal standards for biodiesel in effect yet.)

But don't plan on having that thing start up in cold weather. Biodiesel has been known to turn to gel below 40 degrees, but who takes their boat out when it's that cold? Just run the engine out of fuel and return to port under electric power before you put it away for the winter.

 

Doesnt it take 4 gallons of diesel to make and deliver one gallon of bio ethanol?

There is nothing less polluting than piping crude oil ashore or shipping and then turning it to gas/diesel and delivering it to the gas station for powering vehicles
If ethanol came out of the ground under pressure..i'd vote for 100% tomorrow

 

Can you run an 82 car on E85 in the US?

OMC did make some alcohol kits for various race motors as the Europeans were keen.
I know it included new floats for the carbs as they were not alcohol resistant and all the other usual stuff, all fuel lines, puddle drain hoses, fuel pumps etc.
I remember a few methanol powered race merc V6's ( 80's) and they just removed all the jets and let the fuel run through the threaded holes.

I did read the artcle in Racecar Engineering about the CART cars now running 100 bio something and one interesting item was they had to increase the radiator area something like 30% to keep them cool and ofcourse they use lots more for them same output?

 

When I go the gas station on my little 110 2 stroke suzuki I pull up to the pump with less motorcycles. I cant read Thai so i dont know what Im putting in it , but if other bikes are using it then its not deisel.

It has become apparant that I have been using E85 for years --confused by the difference in colour only, the 91 is red and the E85 is clear . I can honestly say that I have noticed no difference in either as I am not aware of what fuel I put in last.

 

I did not read all of the posts ..we only have 10% ethanol here in Australia and the rule is dont use it on a boat as it absorbs water ,,,,,many have had problems ...

 

Frosty

I didnt think there was any bio in Asia?
[edit] ok E10 in Thailand..anywhere else?

The colours are different in all countries

Powerabout

 

Dont you only have it big in the states where the producers donated the most money to the governments in power....NSW???

 

sorry dont understand that comment ..

 

I think the only state with current laws to mandate E 10 are NSW where the company that makes it was the largest doner to the labour party in 2008
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/labor-delivers-for-big-donors/2008/02/01/1201801034860.html

The federal gov doesn't think it works...
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/RP/2007-08/08RP18.pdf

 

Well we got E85 --91 --96 and biodiesel. The biodiesel really is good stuff and I specifically look for it, the motor runs much better, more power and consiqently better economy,--say 20% better!!!

 

The first-generation corn-based ethanol plants ended up with a net energy in/energy out ratio of roughly 0.7 to 1.3 or so- ie, roughly a gallon of fuel being burned to power tractors, tankers, stills, etc. for every gallon of useable fuel out. These are the ones that stirred up the whole "net negative energy" controversy, especially since the corn farmers had contributed significantly to certain politicians who ended up being big proponents of corn ethanol. Naturally, there were a wide range of values quoted, the producers claiming impossibly net positive numbers, and many of their detractors coming up with figures like the "4 gallons in for 1 out".

Some of the current biodiesel plants, along with a few of the cellulosic ethanol processes that are now at the pilot plant stage, are closer to 0.1-0.3 units of energy in for every unit of energy out. There is a lot of talk right now of algae-based biodiesel/ethanol plants that would run on a combination of solar power and coal fired power plant exhaust, and in theory could be an order of magnitude better than cellulosic. But so far, just small-scale demo plants.

Not to mention your exhaust smells like a chip truck instead of like diesel smoke
Several bus fleets around here tried to run on high-blend biodiesel a few years ago. I heard a lot of good reports in summer, but they never did seem to get the fuel to stay sufficiently liquid in the Canadian winter. That's an engineering chemistry problem that could probably be solved with modifications to the process, but we don't really have any big producers who can invest the money to figure out how to control the low-temperature chemistry of the biodiesel. The cold weather problem, coupled with the relative lack of suppliers and the need to set up a gas station in your side yard (complete with spill containment and regulatory approval) seems to be hampering biodiesel adoption here.

I've heard from a few folks who run it in their 1980s VW/Toyotas to have a good supply of spare fuel filter elements when you convert to biodiesel- they've reported that the stuff acts like a fuel system cleaner, removing all the crud that had built up in the lines and pumps. Thus, for the first couple of months on biodiesel, the fuel filter would clog every few weeks.

Ontario mandates an average of at least 5% ethanol in gasoline (O.reg.535/05). In practice, the oil companies are generally giving us up to 10% in the 87-octane fuel, with none in the hi-test. The main rationale is that it's an oxygenating and knock-reducing additive, thus it promotes cleaner combustion and allows the use of a slightly broader range of hydrocarbon fractions that would otherwise pose a knock problem. It's also supposed to slightly reduce our foreign oil dependence (although not by much) and it acts as a gas line antifreeze in winter. We have only a handful of places where you can get blends higher than E10, though.

 

Matt
Thanks for the info.
What do you think will happen as the bio fuel takes a bigger slice of the market and then the country has a bad farming season, no food or no fuel?
Powerabout

 

It only smells like a chip shop if its been previously used to fry chips in.

Those are the guys that go round Mcdonalds etc,-- THAT oil will smell of the food thats been cooked.

To answer the original question yes you can use it. Do you think the gas station would /could sell something that could potentially damage your engine?

Anyway you have to dump some 2 stroke oil in it.

Bio deisel--at the gas station,- No it does'nt crud up your filters, its perfectly clean fuel made for the use of normal automobiles without any modifications.

The west is lagging way behind the east.