How to made model of a small river push boat with Orca3D Hull Assistant and Delftship

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Rabah, Sep 23, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Rabah
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 247
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 50
    Location: Bulgaria

    Rabah Senior Member

    Hello everybody,
    I want to show you as to make computer model of a small river push boat a length 18,5m.
    In 2011 I helped one student to be guided what prototypes to pick for the future degree work. He has decided to project a river push boat. The prototype with General arrangement but without a Linesplan has found also.
    But in an aftereffect he has changed his solution and was stopped on alternative project of sea tug.
    However to me the idea about a push boat for Brazilian rivers Tiete-Parana already has captured and I have decided to implement her. Has made the publication in a forum of site Orca3D where reader's visiting have reached 11891 before recently officially to cover a forum.
    But I think that the readers of site Boat Design.net are much greater than site Orca3D, for this purpose I have decided to publish again here.
    It is better for you to decide whether it be worth to spent work and time or not.
    What way it is possible to go to develop model?
    Regardless of the fact that I recently criticized program Orca3D for its slow development /see the link:<http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/stability/analysis-condition-development-program-orca3d-53377.html>/ it has one extremely useful function - Orca3D Hull Assistant which helps fast execution of desirable model by means of enter of definite parameters.
    Continuation follows...

    Хочу вам показать как сделать компьютерную модель малого речного толкача длиной 18,5m.
    В 2011 году я помогал одному студенту ориентироваться какие прототипы выбрать для свою будущую дипломную работу. Он решил проектировать речного толкача. Нашел и прототип с Общем расположении но без теоретического чертежа.
    Но в последствии он изменил свое решение и остановился на вариант проектировать морского буксира.
    Однако мне уже захватила идея про толкача для Бразильских рек Тиете - Парана и я решил реализовать ее. Сделал публикацию в форуме сайта Orca3D, где читательские посещения достигли 11891 прежде чем недавно официально закрыть форум.
    Но я думаю что читатели сайта Boat Design.net на много больше чем сайта Orca3D, для этого я решил публиковать и здесь.
    Вам лучше решать стоило ли это потраченного труда и времени или нет.
    Каким путем можно идти чтобы разработать модель?
    Независимо от того что я недавно критиковал программу Orca3D для ее медленного развития /смотри линк: <http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/stability/analysis-condition-development-program-orca3d-53377.html>/ у нее есть одна исключительно полезная функция - Orca3D Hull Assistant, которая помогает быстрому оформлению желаемой модели посредством ввода определенных параметров.
    Продолжение следует...
    _____________________________
    NA Razmik Baharyan
     
  2. Rabah
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 247
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 50
    Location: Bulgaria

    Rabah Senior Member

    How to made model of a small river push boat-continue

    1. It is improved project ship dimensions:
    L hull = 18,5m; B = 9,0m; T = 2,0m; H aft = H middle = 3,0m; H fore = 3,5m;
    2. With Rhinoceros and Orca3D Hull Assistant / Ship Assistant it is made the desired the stern and the bow contours of the push boat. The method of deriving of the stern and the bow contours is very interesting and likely is pleasant too much of admirers Orca3D and likely and of others in forum Boat Design.net.
    а.With Ship Assistant I have made the half hull up to CL but with height 2,1m from the bottom in middle /a little bit more the draft/ paying exclusive attention to the stern contours. I decided to exchange the round bilge with double chine. For this purpose excised the bilge part. I excised also the fore part. So has received <.3dm> file only for the bottom and the sides in the stern /see the file Stern/.
    b. Too with Ship Assistant up to height 2,1m from the bottom in middle I have made the second model again of the half hull up to CL, but this time the stern contours I have carried out such what I have decided to accept in the fore part. I have excised the bilge and the fore part. The received stern christened with new name "Fore part" /see the file Bow/.
    3. It is made Export these files from Rhino and saved them as IGES files.
    4. It is made Import two IGES files in one Delftship Professional file.
    The continuation follows...

    1. Уточняем проектных размеров:
    L hull = 18,5m; B = 9,0m; T = 2,0m; H aft = H middle = 3,0m; H fore = 3,5m;
    2. При помощи Rhinoceros и Orca3D Hull Assistant / Ship Assistant оформляем желанные кормовые и носовые обводы толкача. Способ получения кормовых и носовых обводов очень интересный и наверно понравится многим из почитателей Orca3D а наверно и другим в форуме Boat Design.net:
    а. При помощи Ship Assistant я оформил половина корпуса до CL но с высотой 2,1m от днища в миделе /немножко более осадки/ обращая исключительное внимание кормовым обводам. Решил заменить скругление скула на двойной слом. Для этого вырезал скуловую часть. Вырезал и носовую часть. Так получил <.3dm> файл только для днища и борта в кормовой части /смотри файл Stern/.
    b. Тоже с Ship Assistant до высоту 2,1m от днища в миделе оформил вторая модель опять как половина корпуса до CL, но на этот раз кормовые обводы выполнил такими, какиe я решил принять в носовой части. Вырезал опять скул и носовая часть. Полученную кормовую часть перекрестил с новым именем - „носовая часть” /смотри файл Bow/ .
    3. Делаем Export этих файлов от Rhino и сохраняем их как IGES файлы.
    4. Делаем Import двух IGES файлов в одного файла Delftship Professional.
    Продолжение следует...
    _________________________
    NA Razmik Baharyan
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Rabah
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 247
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 50
    Location: Bulgaria

    Rabah Senior Member

    How to made model of a small river push boat - continue

    5. We add new surfaces for the cylindrical part and joined with the stern and the fore so that to receive the maximum length of the hull. We add a flat bilge.
    6. It is increased the depth - up to levels 3m in the horizontal part and 3,5m on the bow transom.
    7. We add the deck, the bows and sterns transom.
    8. The received contour of the buttock in CL is compared from the contour of the prototype by means of the function “Importing Background Images” on Delftship Professional. We superimpose the Side view of the prototype on overall dimensions of the new model. The image of the prototype is scaled to new model on a length and height.
    9. By means of extraction of contour control points of the model we unify the contour of the model with the contour of the prototype.
    10. We add outboard keel - stabilizing skeg on a coordinate points from the image of the prototype.
    11. We test model and if it is necessary liquidated all Leak Points. It is necessary to receive the message “Model is OK”.
    The continuation follows...

    5. Добавляем новые поверхности для цилиндрической части и соединяем с кормовую и носовую часть так, чтобы получить максимальную длину корпуса. Добавляем плоская скула.
    6. Увеличиваем высоту борта - до уровни 3m в горизонтальной части и 3,5m на носовом транце.
    7. Добавляем палубу, носовой и кормовой транец.
    8. Полученный контур батокса в CL сравниваем с контура прототипа посредством функции “Importing Background Images” на Delftship Professional. Накладываем Боковой вид прототипа на габарит новой модели. Изображение прототипа масштабируется к новой модели по длине и высоте.
    9. Посредством вытягивания контурных контрольных точек модели унифицируем контур модели с контуром прототипа.
    10. Добавляем наружный киль - стабилизатор по координатных точек изображения прототипа.
    11. Проверяем модель, если надо ликвидируем всех Leak Points. Надо получить сообщение “Model is OK”.
    Продолжение следует...
    __________________________________
    NA Razmik Baharyan
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Rabah
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 247
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 50
    Location: Bulgaria

    Rabah Senior Member

    How to made model of a small river push boat-continue

    12. On program Delftship Professional we make the silhouette of the push boat /see the file/ using the coordinate points of the prototype.
    If wheelhouse moving on height, it is necessary to pick the lowermost position because the push boat is tested on an intact stability on criterion of weather on a wind pressure and waves at free motion without barges. In this condition there is no necessity to move wheelhouse in the upper position.
    13. It is selectable critical points.
    14. We execute calculations of hydrostatics on Delftship Professional.
    We receive additive coefficient for appendages 1,01.
    Calculations of hydrostatics at draft T = 2m display volume of displacement V = 202,62 m^3 and weight displacement D = 204,64t
    Arrangement of the coordinate system see in the file.
    15. We test an intact stability of the push boat in the system rivers Rheine - Main - Danube which on height of waves, pressure and wind velocities differ from Brazilian a little. Except for that in the program the wind pressure is accepted 40 kg/m^2, that means availability of a high reserve as for the rivers of Europe pressure 0,25 kN/m^2 is accepted.
    At draft T = 2m and displacement D = 204,64t we receive VCG = 2,4m and LCG=LCB=10,089m from AP.
    The righting lever curve is shown in a separate file.
    In the table with outcomes the satisfaction of all stability criteria in the river is visible /see the file/.
    At help Export/Import IGES file we can see model and at other programs - Aerohydro MultiSurf, See Solution and Rhinoceros.
    The continuation follows...

    12. На программе Delftship Professional делаем силуэт толкача / смотри файл / используя координатных точек прототипа.
    Если рубка подвижная по высоте, надо выбрать самое нижнее положение, потому что толкач проверяется на остойчивость по критерия погоды на давление ветра и волн при свободного движения без состава. В этом состоянии нет необходимости передвигать рубку в верхнем положении.
    13. Выбираем критические точки.
    14. Выполняем расчеты гидростатики на Delftship Professional.
    Принимаем добавочный коэффициент для выступающих частей 1,01.
    Расчеты гидростатики при осадке T= 2m показывают объемное водоизмещение V= 202,62m^3 и весовое водоизмещение D= 204,64t
    Расположение координатной системы смотри в файле.
    15. Проверяем остойчивость толкача в системе реках Рейн - Майн - Дунай, которые по высоту волн, давление и скорости ветра мало отличаются от бразильских. Кроме того в программе давление ветра принято 40 kg/m^2, что означает наличие большого запаса, так как для реках Европы принято давление 0,25 kN/m^2.
    При осадке T= 2m и водоизмещение D= 204,64t принимаем VCG= 2,4m LCG=LCB=10,089m от КП.
    Диаграмма статической остойчивости показана в отдельном файле.
    В таблице с результатами видно удовлетворение всех критериев остойчивости в реке / смотри файл /.
    При помощи Export/Import IGES файла можем посмотреть модель и на другие программы - Aerohydro MultiSurf, See Solution и Rhinoceros.
    Продолжение следует...
    ______________________________
    NA Razmik Baharyan
     

    Attached Files:

  5. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 5,736
    Likes: 184, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    As you well know, the value of the initial GMt equals the tangent of the angle the righting arm curve has at the origin of coordinates. Do they mean your results that the tangent at the origin of that curve form an angle of 75.17º ( tan(75.17º) = 3,776)?.
    What interpretation could you give to what appears in the accompanying figure, taken from your chart?
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Heimfried
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 325
    Likes: 34, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: Berlin, Germany

    Heimfried Senior Member

    The angle of the drawn tangent is arithmetical 75.17° (= 1.312 rad) and could be measured with an angle meter from the diagram, if the graduation of the heel angle were drawn in the same scale (in radiant) than the GZ in Meters.
     
  7. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 5,736
    Likes: 184, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    See the figure below. I find no explanation, so I would ask Rabah.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Rabah
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 247
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 50
    Location: Bulgaria

    Rabah Senior Member

    Hi boys,
    Heimfried is right, measuring of Tansl is absurd because on the vertical and on the horizontal axis of Stability curve the dimensions and scales are different.
    __________________________
    NA Razmik Baharyan
     
  9. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 5,736
    Likes: 184, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    Of course, but if you say that the initial GMt equals 3,776, the tangent of the curve at the origin must be 3.776 and therefore, the angle should be 75.17º, regardless of the units and scales of each axis. How do you explain, Rabah, the difference ?. That's the simple question that I do.
     
  10. Rabah
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 247
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 50
    Location: Bulgaria

    Rabah Senior Member

    How to made model of a small river push boat-Last part

    Some words about it what can be the superstructure for this small push boat.
    I offer you to see two possible versions:
    1. With moving wheelhouse /see the Side view file from the previous parts of the publication/. The silhouette of the push boat specified as the prototype in the task for degree designing of a similar push boat for Brazilian rivers Tiete - Parana is used. Here the ASD push boat by rotary steerable propellers in dual-purpose nozzles in the stern and vertical course of the pilothouse is shown.
    The highest position of wheelhouse is applied to good observation shipping paths ahead of the long barges composition.
    The lowermost position is used when the barges composition transits under bridges, approximately as for the rivers of Europe. As well at course without barges.
    Certainly there are also such constructions for which wheelhouse changes the position both on a length and on height on the composite search pattern.
    2. With fixed wheelhouse /see the file/ - when the overall dimensions of the push boat on height do not depend from shipping paths. As the prototype for the superstructure is used the silhouette of the Bulgarian push boat „ Sava Ganchev “, working on the river Danube.
    End of the publication.

    Несколько слов об этом какая может быть надстройка у этого маленького толкача.
    Предлагаю вам посмотреть два возможных варианта:
    1.С подвижную рубку /смотри файл Side view из предыдущих частей публикации/. Использован силуэт толкача, указанного как прототип в задании для дипломного проектирования подобного толкача для Бразильских реках Тиете - Парана. Здесь показан толкач поворотными винторулевыми колонками в корме, гребными винтами в насадках и вертикального хода рулевой рубки.
    Самое высокое положение рубки применяется для хорошего наблюдения судоходной пути впереди длинного состава.
    Самое нижнее положение употребляется когда состав проходит под мостами, примерно как у реках Европы.Также и при ходе без состава.
    Конечно есть и такие конструкции у которых рубка изменяет свое положение и по длине и по высоте по сложную траекторию.
    2.С неподвижную рубку /смотри файл/ - когда габарит толкача по высоте не зависит от судоходной пути. Как прототип для надстройки использован силуэт болгарского толкача „Сава Ганчев“, работающий на реки Дунай.
    Конец публикации.
    ___________________________
    NA Razmik Baharyan
     

    Attached Files:

  11. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 5,736
    Likes: 184, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    Do you realize the huge bow wave that these forms will generate ?. The ship will use more energy to create the wave that push barges.
    The breadth may be too great for certain passages of European waterways. If bridges can be a problem for the height of the wheelhouse, breadth, undoubtedly, will be too.
     
  12. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 4,371
    Likes: 201, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1485
    Location: Midcoast Maine

    DCockey Senior Member

    TANSAL, the angle between the curve and the x-axis will change with different units and different scales on each axis. So your question is invalid.
     
  13. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 4,371
    Likes: 201, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1485
    Location: Midcoast Maine

    DCockey Senior Member

    If the push boat is pushing against the square stern of a barge then the shape of the push boat's bow will have negligible effect on the wave making of the combined barge(s) and push boat.

    Push boats on US rivers also have square bows.
     
  14. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 5,736
    Likes: 184, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    Sorry but I don´t think so. One can always make mistakes but honestly, at this time, do not know where is my mistake.
    It is quite possible that the Push boats on US rivers are as you say, I do not know. What we do know is that the submerged hull of any ship, including tugboats, should be as effective as possible from the point of view of hydrodynamics. I can not think of any reason for the careen of a tug looks like a shoebox. The bow top in this type of barge tugs, of course, should be flat, but the submerged part, what for ?. Your explanations will be highly appreciated. Thank you.

    The support points to push must be fixed to the main deck, not the forecastle deck, and should reach the water plane.
    Some pictures of what I mean :
     

    Attached Files:


  15. Heimfried
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 325
    Likes: 34, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: Berlin, Germany

    Heimfried Senior Member

    You are wrong, Tansl, three people told you so until now.

    Look at the following pic. It is from your post #7, but shrinked by 2.24 in the horizontal dimension only .
    That means to alter the horizontal scale. The angle has altered too.
    At now is the horizontal distance of 1 rad (57,3 deg.) nearly equal to the distance of 1 Meter verrtically.
     

    Attached Files:

Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.