how to layup with vinylester correctly?

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by leaky, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Thanks guys, all good info. I used to own a custom laminating shop and we also built hundreds if small boats back in the mid 70's in New Zealand but really been working with epoxy and VE in recent years and there is a lot I have forgotten about the chemistry from back in those days. We do a lot of repair work where I work with VE and my son and I also infuse with VE but I have never had anything to do with DCPD hence the questions and it sounds like i never will as I have no time for brittle resins of any chemistry. I often see people on these forums complaining about the smell of VE but to me it is no different to PE and I don't mind it at all and a non issue with infusion.
     
  2. leaky
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    leaky Senior Member

    It does smell different, at least the formula I'm using - I'd describe it as a kinda flowery/sweet smell atop the typical smell you'd get from PE/styrene... It *might* burn your eyes a bit more if you have to use it in an enclosed area, there is a fix for that though a full face setup or better venting.

    But I do not smell it one bit with a respirator you can probably find at any home depot in the US (ie for someone in New Zealand, on any major road in a half populated area you find at least one every 30 miles)..

    I guess, again the stuff I'm using, is not as friendly with mat (and again the mat I'm using too) - just eats the binder more slowly so takes a bit more patience, but then there's a complete workaround there via stitch mat or combination products. On the other hand I'd say for the trouble it gives one with mat it's more friendly to me as far as placing biax.

    Anyway whatever the case VE is good stuff. Also been playing with some high end ISO polyester in this project (as expensive as VE & chosen not for any particular property beyond it's availability at the supplier & heat resistance which is ~300 degrees - better for exhaust parts). Funny though the ISO polyester reads a lot like VE does - it's unwaxed but the sheet on it gives you a window for bonding that's relatively short, 24 hours I believe.

    Jon
     
  3. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    The 24 hour time frame is more of a CYA deal, it's about guaranteed to be good for that long, other things can come into play if it sits longer that are out of their control. Like people that may do it outside in the sun or rain, so they need to say something. On gel coats every company says to laminate on it as soon as it's ready, which would be an hour or so, but it's very common to do all the gel coating the night before and laminate the next day, and on infused yachts it could be days, there are seldom issues.
     
  4. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    DCPDs work well in blends, good tooling/marine skin resins are frequently a VE DCPD blend.

    VEs don't like to cure, DCPDs love to cure, plus they don't shrink much and have a good HDT. The combination yields a good strong high temp resin that will fully cure in a thin laminate with a very good surface profile. A good VE would be very strong, but with a sluggish cure the the thin laminate may post cure and shrink as time goes by.
     
  5. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    The acetone wipe to make it sticky again doesn't really help, there's a high percent of styrene in any resin, up to almost 50% in some, so there's plenty of solvent to re-wet the old resin surface.
     
  6. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Makes sense, I prefer not to do any steps I don't need to. thanks
     
  7. C HARPER
    Joined: Jan 2019
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    Location: Oklahoma

    C HARPER New Member

    I'm using 3M PE for my S&G project and I'm achieving excellent results combining with both csm and weave for my rebated butt joints that turned out strong and sanded very smooth. I contacted 3M and was told theirs is an ORTHO. I was surprised as it is marketed for boat building/repair and 100% waterproof. To not throw the baby out with the bath water would buying VE for a 50/50 with the 3M PE make a worthwhile difference for the remainder of the project?
     
  8. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    It depends on how you plan to use the boat, and where the new resin is being used. If the ORTHO resin is never going to see water, then it makes no difference, if the boat is kept on the trailer 95% of the time, it makes no difference. If this boat is kept in the water all summer, then upgrading to a VE resin, or blend may help, but again, only if this resin will be exposed to the water on a continuous basis, as on the exterior of the hull.
     

  9. C HARPER
    Joined: Jan 2019
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    Location: Oklahoma

    C HARPER New Member

    Thanks Ondarvr that answers it; daysailing on Oklahoma lakes and towed/kept on a trailer.
     
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