how to determine sail area

Ha- there is a saying in marine professions: don't give your opinion unless you are paid for it!

I find that most suspend that edict on this forum and that is one of the strengths of our community here.

Really top quality information is given at no cost- benefit from it if you can.

 

thats cynical. I have recieved much excellent and free advice here.

 

So have I, just not from Par

 

Before this thread I had a vague idea of how tiny some of these craft were but less than 2M, thats mind boggling. So yes he has certainly generated some interesting input. While I feel he is a little Elusive-Eccenric-Naive, I have to admit I a little captivated by his imagination and gusto, two attributes of many new ideas. Hell I've been entised to pull, " A Voyage For Madmen" off my shelf for a re-read. An appropiate title for these crazy adventures I might add. Then again so is rock climbing, sky diving, dying young deprived of a dream or worst yet, growing old not having made the effort ---

A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner--

 

You're in an unhappy minority, then. It has been my experience that Paul (PAR) will pass on every bit of knowledge he's accumulated over the years, to anyone who's willing to hear it. It's almost a compulsion. Thank God for people like him, as opposed to those who go to their graves grimly protecting their trade secrets....

Yes, he can be a bit of a wet blanket sometimes, especially if he thinks you're full of unrealistic bs. That's called a reality check, and it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

Agree 100% --and wet blankets are very useful for cooling off especially when trying to sleep in 90deg F with a packed up air conditioner 2400hundred miles from home and the travel budget is blown

 

Anybody here ever, ever see a freestanding aft mast placed on the transom with single jib in 25 knots. Until some one shows a practical aft mast rig that has done serious ocean time, anyone else would be a complete fool to try it based on a foundation of ignorance. Seen several but not one that passed muster, even in the eyes of their dreamer originators. "Practical" in the above sense means that it did not cost a gazillion bucks to design and build.

Don't really care what response this might bring if it encourages a bit of serious study and work before someone attempts it.

First guy to invent the wheel made it square. Problem is obvious, it made four big bumps with each revolution. Another guy decided he could do better. He made a triangular wheel. Only three bumps per revolution, which he claimed was a big improvement. There is a good reason you don't see aft mast rigs on the ocean.

 

From first post in this thread.

 

25 knots being an arbitrary number, in practice, no sails once reached limitations, whatever speed that may be.

 

Pirate, You're not making sense here-why did you come to the forum for input if you are not willing to approach the posted information with an open mind. Step back for one minute and re read both threads. My read is-many of the posters have accepted the possibly you are serious about this venture and have relayed some excellent information in response. Yet you continue to rebutt that input with an attitude of it's my way or the highway.These are some of the best naval designers and architects in the field along with sailers and builders with hundreds of combined years of experience. It baffles me why you don't question and learn more from some of the informative openings offered here. If a highly respected and qualified poster recommended not to make use of a certain aspect of design I would certainly take it very serious and enquire for input on a recommended replacement system. If you feel you got it all covered why waste time here hour after hour posting what you're gonna do when you can be doing, getting this machine built, fitted out and on it's way. You caught my attention on this project but the thread is becoming more of a, I know this-I read this-i"m gonna do this- I.E. a one way street --What do you need the Forum for ? I don't want to sound a defeatist here but unless your approach changes you're on a one way trip to disaster for lack of listening . --

 

Its common sense. If its too windy for sail, there are no sails. Simple. Same as most boats. Not all advice is good advice, and not all posters here are any more qualified than me. I appreciate good quality info.

Remember, its 10 foot, small boats attract small forces. A small fat boat will not sail much better than a wine barrel.

I am not aiming for a speed record.

 

This thread was about how to determine sail area, the first reply to it was a quality informative post that i was grateful for. The end. But no, 3 more pages of mocking, critisim, off topic and irrelevent information.

Sorry if i sound ungrateful, but as far as i am considerned, the original question was answered shortly after i posted it.

 

I as well as others have offered good advice, based on experience and sound practice. I've crossed oceans solo and made many long passages over the years, as have many of the other posters here, most of us offering the warnings and typical cautions, that are simply obvious.

I've also offered tongue in cheek remarks that have been incorrectly taken personally. Most recently I've digressed into mockery at the silliness of it all. Anyone that comes up with the idea of toughing it out on deck, for the duration of the circumnavigation, really has it coming to them, I think. Aft mast rigs, on a 10' boat and a guy in wet suit on deck, for a couple of years, now there's something to take serious?

Serious is as I posted previously, which of course wasn't from me according to the stoned one. Serious, oh please. Serious folks develop a plan, establish a budget, elicit the help of friends, family, hire professionals, work out schedules, routes, fail safes, etc. Serious is having enough common sense to understand, you haven't the the skills to preform all the tasks of a venture like this by yourself.

Lets see if I have it right; you'll be designing and building this boat, learning along the way (because clearly you have to), which I'll add acquiring your sailing skills. You'll be doing this on a shoe string, likely less, no support system, mothership or other fail safe (what could go wrong there) and all so you can avoid joining the rest of society and pay rent, mortgage or other "contrivances" of civilization. What's the deal here Stoned, pottie trained at gun point or what?

Look at it from an outside view. If someone came to you and said, I'm designing and building an airplane. I'll learn about the aerodynamics thing (that I think is way over rated anyway) along the way. The plane will have a hamster wheel engine and I'll breed fat rats to run around inside it. I'm going to use old bed sheets and bamboo rods for the wings and the goal is solo 'round the world flight with no fossil fuels. I'm not going to spend any money, because I don't have any and I like the independence of it all. How serious would you take this person and would you, after offering solid advise, eventually fall into a hole and start pocking fun at this person, if not laughing hysterically at them? Serious? Oh please . . .

 

The first thing you said to me since coming back to the forum was:

the second:

third:

fourth:

possibly useful advice that got lost between insults

fifth:

Nothing tongue and cheek there. Straight off the bat, hostile. I am not misinterpreting anything.

All I have heard from and about PAR is that he is awesome, has all the skills and experience neccasary but isnt willing to share as he thinks i am a dumb kid idiot ********.

Not much use to me.

 

As far as i am concerned, the current record holde ris serge testa, who built his boat on a shoestring because he had to, he bought no plans, nor did he make any, and in his own words, just started building and did what looked right to him at the time.

Did he end up with a perfect boat as soon as it hit the water? No, he tweaked it by adding plates to the rudder and keel, added boom sprit as his sail plan was terribly out of balance. In his interview they asked him if he used maths or engineering to design the ballast and keel, he said no, just guessed.

Where was serges, gerrys or wilhelm mothership??

We are not all rich ******* like some people.