How much help did you get from Boatdesign.Net?

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by nukisen, Feb 11, 2010.

  1. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,368
    Likes: 71, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 923
    Location: Great Lakes

    Jeff Moderator

    Each post that is reported with the "Flag for Moderator" button is looked at and I appreciate the help in spotting things before they get out of control. In the past I favored light moderation treating everyone as an adult and letting little things slide if they weren't blatantly hurtful or if I thought it wouldn't bother the other person who I knew on the forum (so, often little remarks were exchanged back in forth, as guys might jab eachother over a drink.) But it does seem to me with the economy a bit uncertain and margins and stresses much tighter now that people are increasingly reading the little off handed comments as if they are meant with malice and they tend to get under people's skin. Thus we have to now tighten down more strictly on any rude, off-handed, or off-topic remarks as it's not worth losing people over things that may get under someone else's skin. I think a key is to ask everyone to be mindful of what you write and try and be constructive about the idea at hand so someone a continent away won't leave any thread feeling bothered or insulted or disrespected, especially over things that aren't informational or relevant to the topic at hand.
     
  2. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,368
    Likes: 71, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 923
    Location: Great Lakes

    Jeff Moderator

    The issue which 3 of the 6 major contributors who stopped posting this year cited was that people with noticeably less experience than they offered were being increasingly confrontational and really aggressively "forcing" their opinions and ideas even if they weren't supported by facts or experience.

    On one hand, I fundamentally don't believe in censuring people from the forum because they've only built one boat, etc. One of the great strengths of our forum is that it has historically allowed people to put ideas out to a diverse group for comments who they otherwise wouldn't have access to. It's allowed access for someone who is building their second boat or a second year student to get advice from someone who has built or designed dozens or hundreds of successful hulls. That person in turn historically pays back the community by sharing what they know with the person who is just starting on their first project, or as they move up the ladder themselves they eventually fill the shoes of the one who gave them advice. This has been one of our greatest strengths.

    However I think when the internet was newer it was more of a separate tool to seek and share information whereas now it so universally present in everyone's life that the line becomes more blurred and we forget to be on good behavior when we're talking with someone who can offer us great information and advice. Before people generally came with a bit more respect for those who offer the most advice. For example if you called up a naval architect or a boatbuilder on the phone who is doing million dollar builds and asked them as a favor to give an opinion on the sailboat you're working on, you'd typically be thankful that they spent their time to help you, consider their ideas, and be polite if in disagreement. If you have a friend there who has built a few boats, he might point out something interesting... "I actually used this particular wood in my last build and noticed xyz..." This is great because I think everyone can learn something from everyone else here, and it should be a rewarding experience for everyone. But I think what we lost a bit in the last year was that unspoken respect for not only our peers but also for those who are a step above us in the ladder of experience. It's greatly empowering to all be allowed to meet in the same place, but we must do our best to make the naval architect who is busy working and comes here to offer some advice or the builder who has a hundred boats under their belt to feel respected for their experience, even if there is a disagreement. In hindsight, I also wish I would have sent a PM to the other party before things became unpleasant.

    Not the be-all and end-all solution, but a first step is to all do our best keep things on topic. Keep discussions factual and based on ideas. Be polite and mindful that you're talking with real people. For new people, please respect those who take their time away from paid work to help. Offer ideas and experiences, but don't try and force or overpower those who have equal or more experience in a given area. And if we see things going wrong, maybe in the future as a small step a quick PM to politely ask the newcomer to consider their words will help, as well as tighter moderation to keep things on a truer course that hopefully can be rewarding for everyone.
     
  3. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,368
    Likes: 71, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 923
    Location: Great Lakes

    Jeff Moderator

    P.S. I also appreciate the positive posts of this thread too - we've been focusing so much on the negative things we need to refocus this week that I also appreciate the kind words directed towards all those who offer so much advice, help, and experience. Some days the things that go wrong can be disheartening, but I really do greatly enjoy all the information and experience that is shared here by so many. I cannot begin to thank you all for all the help and interesting and diverse experience that you all offer every day.
     
  4. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    Thanks Jeff, I was fairly intolerant especially of lies when I first came, I have learnt to ignore
    but some can not ignore they are thugs, one who has left mugged me time and time again, I learnt to do as you say, just flag the post, but the member kept me away from here twice in a row. It is a bit much to read you are an amateur when you have made your living from boatbuilding, and when people want to buy a boat they can see the things written and this puts doubt into any would be clients mind. No doubt he frightened many off. I,ll keep posting abt the things I know about and I appreciate the backing I have from many, thanks guys
    Some guys here are so clever, that I can not follow, like Tom Speers whom I have admired since joining in 04
    My motto, do not guess, do not B/S post from experience, not from what you read in some book
     
  5. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    well I must admit I seem to have a stalker
    I have by and large ignored it but still
    it does get annoying on occasion

    I think the adult thing to do is simply ignore the aggravating people as much as possible and although I have made my share of errors it seems that policy has led to some form of equilibrium for me at least with the more difficult members.

    bantering in a lively way with folks like Guillermo has been a great time but when it gets a little to heavy I've just learned to take a break or ignore the poster that is starting to get to me.
    Thing is for some at least I see the anonymity of the keys is to much; its like the drunks we throw out of the club, when they are in hand they tend to be all oh, dam, Im in trouble now, but soon as you let em go outside and they get a bit of room they are all spit and bluster again. The internet reminds me of that but without the fear of reprisal. To bad in a way cause I think folks would be a lot more polite on this thing if they knew you were sitting right across the bar from them, face to face.

    I have enjoyed the forum but I must admit there are some few who seem to miss the whole camaraderie and still seem just in it for themselves.

    lets hope things settle down some
    cause although Ive tried to calm a few brawls
    it seems some folks are bent on aggravating others

    B
     
  6. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 2,589
    Likes: 125, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1650
    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    True words spoken here... Sometimes everybody get's a bit carried away :mad: .. More than ones I've written somewhat nasty replies :rolleyes: , but fortunately found my temper while writing and then delated the post :)
     
  7. nukisen
    Joined: Aug 2009
    Posts: 440
    Likes: 8, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 124
    Location: Sweden

    nukisen Senior Member

    Wow! only hoped for this response!

    Actually! For now it is quite clear. We all does have very good experiences from this forum, to carry with us.

    Thanks Jeff! You started this forum and we all together make this forum to what it is! A damn enjoyable one. :D

    whoosh!!
    Of course it is hard to read about the amateur thing, specially when you have the boats for living. I can´t remember I have read this posts mentioned.
    Anyway I am not an expert in all kind of boats but I am able to tell what i likes and dislikes. Even if another proffesional have post you are an amateur I still likes your experience and models. Thats why I send some recomends per week up here in Sweden. You are a professional even if another says you are not. If anyone doubt they have to see your gallary once more. Just because you don´t building luxuary ships that only a few in the world have the wallet to buy, this makes you not an amateur. If you building boats that many are interested in and also are able to afford I believe you are a great proffessional.

    Boston!
    I don´t think Jeffs thought was to start a forum just for experts. If so I have to quit.:p
    You are very right with this!
    "lets hope things settle down some
    cause although Ive tried to calm a few brawls
    it seems some folks are bent on aggravating others"
    Unfortunately there will always be some hwo likes to do this!
    They are in minority in this forum! Most of you guys I do have a very good experience of. Else I wouldn´t enjoy this so much as I do.

    //Janne
     
  8. nukisen
    Joined: Aug 2009
    Posts: 440
    Likes: 8, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 124
    Location: Sweden

    nukisen Senior Member

    Also In this forum I do have the chance to meet people who are as much a ***** as myself wanting to build a boat and all that is coming around this!

    //Janne
     
  9. missinginaction
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 1,062
    Likes: 231, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 512
    Location: New York

    missinginaction Senior Member

    Thanks Jeff and I wish those who have left all the best (with a heavy heart).

    I knew practically nothing when I first came here some three years ago. I immediately knew that I had discovered a great resource. There are many posters who come to mind but the most memorable in my mind were PAR, APEX 1 and Alan White. There were of course others, these three just stand out a bit.

    I still consider myself new to this forum. No one knows it all and even if they could technology keeps innovating so there is always something new.

    It's unfortunate that there was some bullying going on here. Jeff, I can tell you that when I read this forum I'm always skeptical. I compare what I read here with what is published in established text books. When things make sense and the writer takes a logical, reasoned approach to giving advise, well the post then speaks for itself.

    The members that I have "listened" to over the past few years earned my trust and respect. If and when those people were "attacked" by others, well I looked at the attacker with great suspicion.

    I might not agree with someone but if that's the case I'm going to ask questions and try to understand the other guys point of view. If people just "attack" others and behave badly I'm just going to dismiss them.

    I'll still be here and I'll still participate but I hope those that left understand that for me at least.....they always had my respect! Their work here speaks for itself.
     
  10. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 3,486
    Likes: 96, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 1148
    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

    must say on boating and associated a lot, thank you Jeff and posters
    Boatdesign.net pops up on most my google searches so guess elsewhere too
    do requet good people leave the forum and like to see them back
    but it would be all to crazy to police the site, lets behave and enjoy
     
  11. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 3,007
    Likes: 301, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    It is sad that we have lost few valuable posters here. I think we just need to support each other to resist rude behaviour.

    Thanks for great resource Jeff.
     

  12. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Ya but I think a little bit of tolerance for the views of others goes a long way. There is actually only a rare few folks who seem to be hell bent on causing trouble.
     
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