How far out is classed as the ocean?

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by djwkd, Mar 22, 2007.

  1. Verytricky
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    Verytricky Large Member

    You should not provide opinion as if it were fact. This statement is completely wrong in every way, including spelling!

    England does not have any offshore borders - it has internal borders with Scotland and Wales, which are internationally recognised as being equivalent to provincial or state boarders, and the offshore borders are of no consern to England at all.
    The United Kingdom ( the actual country that has the international borders! ) extends its borders 12 miles offshore, except where this overlaps another countries border ( eg France ) This is the standard for all countries worldwide under international law.

    The Ocean 'legally' begins where the water becomes wet, as the 'Ocean' comes right up to the shores of the United Kingdom.

    There are two internationally recognised 'zones' of sea. 12 miles from the nearest point of land, which the soverenty of the country is recognised. This means you are still in that specific country, and that countries laws apply.

    200 miles from the nearest point of land, where the country can regulate fishing, mining, drilling for oil etc, but can not stop any nations ships from traversing the area.

    Sometimes these 'rules' are altered by international treaty, such as the North Sea Continental Shelf cases before the Hague International Court or the Anglo-French arbitration of 1977 to determine the boarder.



    If you are interested in ZONES, and you are from the USA, you may find this interesting using california as an example:

    The FIRST ZONE is for formal county jurisdiction (e.g., the county sheriff can arrest you) and is limited to three miles offshore.

    The SECOND ZONE is official California state jurisdiction (e.g., state agencies can arrest you). It is also limited to three miles offshore except across a “closed bay” in which case the state can have much more extensive jurisdiction. For example, the Supreme Court found in “U.S. v. California” 381 US 139, 14 L.Ed.2d 296 (1965) that Monterey Bay was a “closed bay” and thus the State of California had jurisdiction well beyond the usual 3-mile limit (goes about 12 miles offshore at mid-Bay).

    The THIRD ZONE is a zone of official United States sovereignty (the FBI can arrest you). Under international law this is now 12 nautical miles from the nearest point of land (including islands; sometimes farther when “closed bay” lines are involved).

    The FOURTH ZONE is the zone of internationally recognized jurisdiction over seabed and fisheries resources. Although any nation’s ship can transit the waters under the doctrine of “freedom of the seas,” the nation with the jurisdiction may regulate fishing, seabed mining, oil drilling, etc. This jurisdiction is 200 nautical miles from the nearest point of land, including islands.
     
  2. PI Design
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    PI Design Senior Member

    Okay, this has always puzzled me. If the United Kingdon is the country (and I think it is), then what are England, Scotland, Wales, NI and all the islands classes as? Surely not 'states'? My passport says my nationality is British, but Britain (or Great Britain) is not a 'country' so how can that be?
     
  3. rayk
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    rayk Senior Member

    The name of your island I think. Britain. The UK is governed in/from Britain. Citizens of the UK are British.
     
  4. Crag Cay
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    Crag Cay Senior Member

    The country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The 'kingdoms' that came together were England and Scotland, and then a little later, Ireland. These are the flags that were combined into the Union Jack.

    Wales was not considered part of this process as it was a principality of England (Prince of Wales) a situation that had been settled (to our satisfaction) by a much earlier bout of fisticuffs several centuries before.

    With the independence of the southern Irish counties and the formation of the Republic of Ireland, the status of Ulster was for a time legally uncertain, so 'and Northern Ireland' was added to the UK's official name. This is why they get so upset about the sail numbers for UK boats just having GBR on the sails and the tracksuits of the Olympic teams only having Great Britain on the back. Now you will notice that the BBC in particular is very careful to always put GBR & NI on any captions.

    The Channel Islands (and I believe Isle of Man) have a relationship to the Crown, but are not part of the UK or EU. Certainly in the case of the Channel Islands their relationship is due to being the lands of the Duke of Normandy, who I believe is the Queen.

    Of all this contorted history, it's only the giving up of Aquitaine that I personally regret. Would be nice to have a holiday home with good weather, charming neighbours, wine, great food, stunning scenery etc, plus the one thing that is missing....warm beer.
     
  5. PI Design
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    PI Design Senior Member

    Thanks Crag - that kinda makes sense. Two questions:
    Wouldn't the queen be a Duchess?
    How come England and Scotland enter seperate teams at the World Cup (football and cricket)? Surely you need to be a country to enter?
     
  6. Crag Cay
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    Crag Cay Senior Member

    I believe she is a Duchess amongst other things. Her full title goes on for hours and hours. I think she's also the Duke of Lancaster isn't she? Prince Charles is the Duke of Cornwall, and The Prime Minister is the First Lord of the Treasury, but sits in the Commons. And they say people don't feel 'connected' to our political system.

    Sport is a law unto themselves. Basically of you invent a sport you can do what you like. English cricket is a fairly new concept. Traditionally it was the MCC (a club) that represented England. Soccer hangs on to its four seats as it gives it more influence at Fifa, but is under considerable pressure to become GB. We never enter a team in Olympic soccer as that would have to be a GB team and it was thought it would undermine our case for having four home teams. However the IOC has said it would be inconceivable if the London Olympic soccer at Wembley in 2012 didn't have a British team. So I guess that will be the first time you will see a GB soccer team, or should that be GBR & NI?

    The home countries compete at the Commonwealth Games individually so we don't dominate it! (Ha!). There has been some suggestion that Australia and perhaps Canada should compete on a State level as well. But would an all Australia swimming final be any more inclusive?

    More Irish oddity is that at rugby they play as one whole 'island' team, but in soccer it's separate teams for The Republic and for Northern Ireland.
     
  7. Verytricky
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    Verytricky Large Member

    Football is easy. If we are four nations, we get four votes on FIFA!!!

    Scotland never did have a cricket team, and for a long long time scotish players would enter as English players. I think this is the first time there is an actual Scottish team in world cup cricket. Here the reason is historical I believe..
     
  8. djwkd
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    djwkd Senior Member

    Definately not-ducks don't swim in all coastal and inshore waters.
     
  9. charmc
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    charmc Senior Member

    Those Limeys may be weird, but no one ever said they're not clever!:p
     
  10. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    I am guilty of this myself, but a duck doesnt swim does it? It paddles.

    Its a bit like saying "I was swimming along in my canoe".

    I am not sure on this but the defenition of swimming is complete submersion.

    Taking this into consideration a duck therfore is by no means totally submerged. When cast off and on the way with both engines full ahead, it is definately not swimming.
     
  11. DanishBagger
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    DanishBagger Never Again

    So, if the definition of swimming includes being fully submerged, does that mean that I don't swim unless I duck [ ... ] my head under water?

    What about a whale? When it has to take a breath of fresh ir underway, it stops swimming?
    What if the duck dives to get to something? Is it then swimming, even though the motion is the same?

    Something is wrong with that definition.

    Not that it matters, of course.
     
  12. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    AH --Ok 90% submersion then.


    I think a duck when diving usess a completely different motion.

    This duck of your is it an aquatic duck? What colour is it?

    What length on the water line, draft beam etc.

    If you place your duck in a pond and give the comand to dive, this is normally a loud-- dive--dive--dive-- followd by a loud claxon horn, the duck will stick its head out infront enabling a high speed dive and flips its little legs like a diver rather than the normal duck motion of withdrawing its webed fingers into a fist and opening for the thrust stroke.

    Intersting fact over 85% of ducks are called Donald.
     
  13. Lancerbye
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    Lancerbye Junior Member

    Jack . You been smoking the stuff in that jar again. Right.
     
  14. djwkd
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    djwkd Senior Member


    Very good explanation!

    Thats just stupid and illogical (if thats a word) !
     

  15. djwkd
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    djwkd Senior Member

    The Ocean Generally is wet.Does this mean that when your paddling inside the sea by the shore your in the ocean?

    I would say that that is 'coastal'remember whoever said about the classes of water -Inland,coastal and open sea????

    Its the open sea were looking for!
     
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