How does he do it? Dashew's new 77 foot powerboat cheaper to run than Beowulf.

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by timothy22, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    They effectively go nowhere, so why go to the added expense of making them efficient....?
    __________________

    They ARE Efficient at their designed task!!

    The maximum internal volume is a ball , and many are as close to a ball as can be done , and not invert at the dock.

    FF
     
  2. pkoken
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    pkoken S/V Samadhi V

    This is an important point. Since some folks like to run a business based off of yacht sales it's important to have a product that is saleable.

    I am very happy that there are still designers who will draw designs based on more than market #s.
     
  3. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    I concur.

    Steve and Linda might not be selling boats by the thousands, but they're evidently doing fairly well for themselves and the reputation their designs carry speaks for itself. I've heard (but don't quote me on this) that the 64-foot version of the FPB is attracting so much interest that the waiting list to get one is growing faster than the shop can make space to build more. That's still only a drop in the bucket compared to Sea Ray, or even a fancier motoryacht like a Selene. But a single FPB will probably see more open water, more exotic anchorages, and more countries in its lifetime than the entire year's fleet of Sea Ray 55s will in their combined lifetimes.

    Love the website, Phil. You are making me very, very jealous as I sit here in -21 C weather, my car windows iced up inside and out, with a to-do list that is growing like a pot plant in a brewery. Samadhi V looks like a beautiful boat :)

    My current philosophy on dock fees is, marina fees be damned! (I trailer, and use municipal / public ramps.) We'll see how things look when I get around to building a bigger boat....

    Back on topic....

    I do think the FPB is a difficult boat to pigeon-hole into a defined category. Direct competition? Not much. So I think it's rather interesting to see other boats brought into this discussion. The big sailing mega-yachts as an example of how, in the limits of extreme size, powering costs are definitively lower than sailing costs. Wind Horse vs. Beowulf as a closely related pair that are in a size range where the question of power vs. sail costs becomes really interesting to study. Idlewild as an example of a different approach to a similar problem, with a much lower budget. High-end trawler yachts as examples of what else might be in the same price range as an FPB, and what the trade-offs are as you try to balance between seaworthy and spacious.
     
  4. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    I see little difference between a "mass produced houseboat", and the thousands of Bayliners or Sea Rays parked in marinas all over North America. Boats whose owners have no time or money to actually use them as they are so busy trying to make the next payment.

    Part of efficiency under power is minimizing drag, weight is a factor, thus aluminum or composite construction is desirable for cost saving while underway. An un-painted aluminum hull saves the potentially huge cost of fairing and painting a steel hull. Depending on labour rates aluminum can be a cost saver! Also at resale an aluminum boat will always (IMO)(I realize this is a bit controversial) be seen as more valuable, again (perhaps) a better investment.
     
  5. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    While I admire the general concepts behind both Idlewild and Windhorse, I do have different thoughts on the actual execution. I can't find a pragmatic reason to buy either boat when looking at the current market for passagemaking motor yachts.

    The 64' version of Windhorse will cost $2m plus, you will wait at least one year to get yours. The market is currently full of boats like a Northern Marine 57' (asking $1.5m, bring all offers!) that is ready to go to sea today. The FPB 64 has a slightly smaller John Deere than the Northern M boat, so fuel burn might be in the neighborhood of $5-10 difference (increased) per hour. If you put 1000 hours a year on the boat that's $10k per year? How does that justify spending another $500k-$1m on your yacht?
     
  6. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Because you can....?

    The decision to buy a boat - or at least which boat to buy - is rarely an entirley rational one. And lucky for we folk who like the idea of doing this for a living or there'd be precious little to do!;)
     
  7. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    Some people simply must have the absolute best of everything.

    I can't afford the best of everything in an offshore passagemaker... so for now I must be content with my 5-metre Bolger runabout.

    To each his own....
     
  8. pkoken
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    pkoken S/V Samadhi V

    #1 - You are comparing new construction to used. I cannot remember the time that new construction won out in that cost comparison :) I think that the current price for an FPB 64 is 1.9 million USD.

    #2 - Fuel cost is not the single motivating factor, otherwise you could just buy a "traditional" passagemaker and go slower! Comfort and speed are both key points that are different. The ability to make fast passages against seas without being in a washing machine is more important than fuel costs.

    #3 - Even if you compare new vs. new, the price of an FPB includes all of the cruising equipment and all of the spares, you even get dishes and sheets! The FPBs are equipped with all the cruising spares that are carried by the Dashews, so you are getting a boat that is ready to go.

    I think the FPB 64 is competitively priced for the vessel that it is, and it's intended market.



     
  9. Portager
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    Portager Senior Member

    This thread has been a very interesting read, although it strayed from the original topic like a sailboat going to windward.

    I especially appreciated the comments from Steve Dashew. If you are going to own a boat you should appreciate her. It is hard to love something that you hate.

    Many people are initially drawn to sail boats because they believe the fuel is free and they can stretch their cruising budget. Eventually they realize that sails and rigging aren't free and they don't tend themselves.

    If I were paranoid about fuel costs I would build a motorsailer with a Junk rig. Junk sails and rigging are cheep to build and maintain and if I needed to sail to windward I would motor.

    Eventually, aging sailors come to the realization that they are using power much more than sail. When or if they are able to admit this to themselves and their friends they will switch to power. I've seen many sailboats under sail within sight of port but few beyond sight.

    Long skinny boats are the way to go for boaters who leave the dock. The converse is also true.

    Regards;
    Mike Schooley
     
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  10. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Mike!... Long time no see....good to have you back....
    Sorry to stray even further off-topic, but I note that you have one of Tad's PML's as you avatar....where are you at with your own boat?
     
  11. Portager
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    Portager Senior Member

    Hi Will, et alia;

    Yes, I've been gone awhile. I had to deal with some personal set backs.

    My plans are still to build a transportable passagemaker, and Tad's PML 46 comes closer to my needs than any design I've see, but I post a new thread on my plans. I don't want to hijack this thread.

    Best regards;
    Mike Schooley
     
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  12. pkoken
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    pkoken S/V Samadhi V

  13. Kruse
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    Kruse Junior Member

    Another update today on the FPB64.
    Coming along nicely.
    I do wish there were more frequent updates though as I tend to visit the site with this "perfect" little ultimate voyager daily; hoping for new info.
    I guess it shows that I really like this one :)
    Strong build. Smooth ride. Self-righting. Efficient. Not a White-Boat. Etc.
     
  14. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    some nice work
    wonder why dashew left BOSand Carr
    I would have like to seen breasthooks at the stem, bit she is so pointy there, that there is no room for a gun nozzle even
     

  15. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Eventually, aging sailors come to the realization that they are using power much more than sail. "

    I think this is the difference between "cruising " (inshore travel) and "voyaging" where some is time & distance is covered.

    Sails are a pain ,as is getting RFS (ready for sea) if the transit is only a few hours along a coast.Why bother?

    Our "excuse" is that the cold plates need 2 hours every 4th day to maintain frozen ice cream, so harbor hopping in summers is chosen as a 15 mile 2 1/2 hour excursion 2X a week.

    Inshore/alongshore little actual sailing is done , but that does not mean we would (or want to) motor to the Bermuda or the Windwards.

    FF
     
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