How do I fix this kayak rudder?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Squidly-Diddly, Jun 21, 2014.

  1. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Seems there WAS a bolt embedded in the white (now sorta brittle) plastic.

    I'm thinking of installing a 4.5" THROUGH bolt (drilling 3/8" hole between the ropes, inserting 3/8" bolt and pouring epoxy around the ragged pre-existing larger than 3/8" hole where former bolt was imbedded.

    Then the rest of the bolt through the stern bracket with a nylock nut.

    Any other ideas? Rudder appears to be aftermarket, no brand markings anywhere:confused:. Sheesh, whatever happened to self promotion?:D
     

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  2. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    Might be better to drill the hole larger (1/2"?) and use 1/2" aluminum rod drilled each side for a cotter pin or similar. I don't know what the material of the stock is but it looks like polyethelene, which epoxy won't adhere well to.
     
  3. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    thx Alan, crux of the problem is two ropes run through the plastic block and don't allow for much bigger hole.

    Now I'm thinking of replacing the plastic with an new aluminum or plastic block and maybe re-routing the ropes.

    Maybe I'll CAD up the block and have one made.

    Maybe just add an 1/8" alum plate across where the ragged hole is with a few self tappers into flat metal flukes on either side of plastic, then drill through hole.
     
  4. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

    The first thing you need to do is replace the poly. Get a scrap of Starboard, or an old cutting board, and make up a new piece. Instinct tells me a 3/8 hole in poly won't run true for very long. I'd go as big as will work, or if you are feeling fussy, you could bush the plastic with a sintered bronze insert at the top leaving room for the lines below.

    bush - http://asbbearingsonline.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=63_64&products_id=1811

    Looking at the second photo again, a bush is probably what is missing from that photo.
     
  5. Poida
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    Poida Senior Member

    I am wondering if that rudder attachment is not part of the original kayak and has been added.

    Rudders aren't favoured by a lot of experienced users.
    If your kayak is only used for short runs a rudder is OK but most kayakers don't like them because they add drag and over a distance adds fatigue (especially with a clump of seaweed stuck on it)

    Steering a kayak without a rudder requires the correct technique so a rudder is useful if you only want to use your kayak for a bit of fun and not go too far.

    I am assuming the rudder was added by someone who didn't have the technique and didn't want to learn.

    I've had several kayaks, none with rudders including the one I have now which is 5 metres long.

    My suggestion, leave it off.

    Poida
     
  6. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Rudders on Kayaks get a wide variety of opinions, but rudders aint just rudders.

    Most of the time on a Kayak, its the amount that they are lowered by, not so much the angle, that is important.

    If you are doing 2 hours slog with the wind on the quarter, it is a lot less tiring to drop the rudder 6 inches without any turn angle, to get directional stability so you dont have to compensate your stroke to stop the bow being pushed off course.

    If you are not getting strong winds, you just raise the rudder totally for less drag.

    When you are threading you way at slow speed through mud banks, rocks and tree logs, a rudder is fantastic, and the angle is absolutely required.

    If you can raise and lower your rudder, any objections to extra drag are irrelevant. Most long distance paddlers have at least a raisable skeg, if not a full rudder setup.
    eg http://www.gadling.com/2011/03/20/sea-kayaking-across-the-atlantic/

    Ascribing the presence of a rudder to a novice is inaccurate imho.
     
  7. Poida
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    Poida Senior Member

    You are quite right Mr Rwatson, as I said a lot of kayakists don't like rudders, meaning there are two schools of thought. You have expressed the other.

    If a boat hull is out of shape or not "fair" the rudder has to compensate, causing drag that really shouldn't be there.
    Novices like rudders because if they don't sit in a kayak straight, ie lean to one side, they will cause the kayak to turn. Instead of learning to sit upright they compensate with the rudder, causing unnecessary drag.

    You steer a kayak by bending at the waist and you shouldn't have to compensate with the paddles either, as you suggested.

    Kayaking in the wind is normally avoided because it's just not pleasant, however the wind can spring up while you are out. In that case a skeg is the best option. The last kayak I had with a skeg I wiped it off so many times coming in with the surf or over reefs, I wouldn't even have one of those again.

    But to each his own.

    Poida
     
  8. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    really ? :)


    Which is why I specifically said "Most long distance paddlers have at least a raisable skeg"

    You could make it a real challenge and not take a paddle with you, if you have an aversion to control surfaces.
     
  9. Poida
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    Poida Senior Member

    Oh how I love a sensible debate.:eek:
     
  10. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    the only rudder you need on a kayak you are already holding in your hands (the paddle). Rudders do not belong on native watercraft, they are a "white man" invention for much larger and very different type of boats. I think rudders on kayaks are designed to separate a newbie kayak buyer from their money.

    Not only does the rudder add drag and weight, one that small is hardly effective anyway, it will pick up sea weed and other debris, risk damaging the hull should you ground it after forgetting to raise, has parts that can fail and foul (as you found out here), and make it more difficult to do a self rescue if you try climbing up over the stern of the kayak to get back into the cockpit. They also usually contributes to dumping or rolling the kayak in a following sea after a broach because the rudder was out of the water when the bow is down, and than "grabs" after the broach occurs, rolling the kayak suddenly and too fast for most kayakers to react. I have also found the darn foot pegs or pedals contribute to cramping of the feet and calf, and you risk getting sport sandals or shoe laces caught on them in an emergency.

    Learn to use your paddle in a "rudder stroke", it will make you a better kayaker and you can solve the problem having to fix something that you do not really need on your kayak anyway.

    I built my first kayak 40 years ago, and have designed and built perhaps 12 or more since, and have paddled over 100 different types of both home built and factory built kayaks. learn to control the boat by using the proper technique with your paddle, the way the traditional native kayakers have done since before recorded history. like most things, the kayak is best when there is nothing left to remove from it, not when there is nothing left to add. You do not need a rudder, nor most of the other crap they sell you at the store.
     
  11. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

  12. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member


    Bleeping purists !!!! What is this PURE bunkum ? They would have put a rudder on if they had had the technology, and the effort to build it was worth it.

    Do Polynesians outrigger canoes have an oar dedicated as a rudder ? Do Viking Longboats have a dedicated oar as a rudder ? Of course they do. Rudders are no more "white man" than sails.

    A raisable skeg or a rudder is a tremendous labour saving device in the right conditions, and totally not a problem if not required.

    The original cave man probably used his hands to propel the first log - what a cissy using a paddle !!!
     
  13. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    "Stuart Trueman has completed his mammoth kayaking adventure circumnavigating Australia. ABC Local was there as he set foot back in Broome where his huge effort began. It was also the completion of a less glamorous but equally challenging effort by Sharon Trueman who has looked after the couple's two children alone for 16 months.

    You can't underestimate the enormity of Stuart Trueman's achievement. It's 16,000 kilometres around Australia's coastline, through searing heat, freezing cold, storms, cyclones, sharks and crocodiles. It would be a gruelling task in a motor-boat, but Stuart paddled his kayak every bit of the way over 16 months."


    http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2011/07/29/3281412.htm

    Lets see - would a great kayaker like this use a rudder ?????

    Yes, of course he would !!!!!
     

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  14. Yobarnacle
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member

    He's a woos. Used a paddle too, Should of done it with hand paddling, the cissy! ROFLMAO
     

  15. Poida
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    Poida Senior Member

    Mr Rwatson

    You appear to be one of the posters who likes to create an argument for no reason at all.

    My first post was to advise the original poster that not all people like the use of a rudder and he has the choice of leaving it off.

    It is a matter of choice.

    Thank you for that link, and interestingly his rudder was bitten off by a shark, he obviously continued the trip without it. And maybe was thinking, "why the hell did I have one in the first place. LOL

    And, you've pointed out another reason not to use a rudder, it attracts sharks!!:p

    Poida
     
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