How about a human powered Ekranoplan?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by jakeeeef, Oct 5, 2021.

  1. jakeeeef
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 126
    Likes: 21, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 16
    Location: Hamble

    jakeeeef Senior Member

    I've just been working on a short article about an interesting electric Wing in Ground effect project (WIG).

    Maritime Journal | Isn’t it time you got a WIG? https://www.maritimejournal.com/news101/vessel-build-and-maintenance/ship-and-boatbuilding/isnt-it-time-you-got-a-wig

    It strikes me that compared with a human powered aircraft (Incredibly difficult, but doable), a human powered craft running in ground effect might be easier to achieve. Lower power requirement and stability less of an issue? Or do human powered planes only work in ground effect anyway?

    Obviously I know this one is well beyond the reach of the hobyist, but just interested to know if it's being thought about.

    As a subsidiary question, is a sail powered WIG craft perhaps in the future for things like the America's Cup?

    Whether these are boats or not I guess depends on whether you want to have anything touch the water. To sail, you'd need a Hapa foil or keel of some sort and rudder.

    Human powered could use an airscrew or water propeller plus rudder. In terms of an HPB, you could say it's the next stage on for Decavitator. Wings in air instead of water!

    Same with the America's Cup- Wings in air instead of water. Once they're up and going the apparent wind is well forward so it's not like your trying to get the wings to work in a sidewind.

    Perhaps a bit of both, so foils in the water to give initial lift. I note that the vessel/ aircraft linked above has water foils too.

    Jake
     
  2. jakeeeef
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 126
    Likes: 21, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 16
    Location: Hamble

    jakeeeef Senior Member

    Thinking about it for a second, there's no WAY you'd get off the water with human power. A human powered aircraft has a smooth runway and low rolling resistance wheels and tyres to allow it enough speed for takeoff. A foiling human powered WIG would be to heavy to get onto its foils and therefore would never attain the speed to get into ground effect flight.
    But... my query re sail power still stands.
    It could use a wind generator to gearbox to propeller system. Upwind it would be a thing to behold! Apparent wind building with forward speed increasing lift on the wings and power at the same time!
     
  3. clmanges
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 506
    Likes: 99, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 32
    Location: Ohio

    clmanges Senior Member

    Sounds like you're skating in the direction of Perpetual Motion.
     
  4. alan craig
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 331
    Likes: 97, Points: 38, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: s.e. england

    alan craig Senior Member

    Human powered aircraft mostly fly within ground effect, but to win the Kremer prize Gossamer Condor had to start and finish the course flying over a 10ft. high barrier.
     
  5. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 3,266
    Likes: 246, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Build it!!

    What a waste of words.
     
  6. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 10,401
    Likes: 1,029, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Do Flying Fish depend on ground effect ? Some people say they don't really fly, but that isn't my observation.
     
  7. comfisherman
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 183
    Likes: 80, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Alaska

    comfisherman Senior Member

    Need to spend more effort on the steroid use and doping and less on the design of craft...... get that watt output higher than Lance Armstrong at the height of his doping.
     
    DogCavalry likes this.
  8. jakeeeef
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 126
    Likes: 21, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 16
    Location: Hamble

    jakeeeef Senior Member

    Re skating close to perpetual motion.
    Not so. Turbine to pylon to gearbox to prop sailing craft
    A) exist
    and B) have their fastest point of sailing dead upwind.
     
  9. clmanges
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 506
    Likes: 99, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 32
    Location: Ohio

    clmanges Senior Member

    Cite an example, please? Just guessing here, but I would expect this system to perform very poorly downwind.
     
  10. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 3,266
    Likes: 246, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    What does this have to do with human powered performance.
    Rock stars sing nice, another fact that has nothing to do with this thread.
     
  11. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 15,617
    Likes: 1,107, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Do a free body diagram of the forces involved and check the results. For example, the force of the wind on the turbine needs an opposite reaction force or it won't turn.
     
  12. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 3,266
    Likes: 246, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Gonzo,

    You had better define a free body diagram.
    You don't really expect someone who made that statement to understand - do you?
     
  13. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
    Posts: 1,226
    Likes: 169, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 358
    Location: finland

    kerosene Senior Member

    this is a cart but same difference. Travels 2x windspeed upwind.


    this is a boat.





    this is too

    even though not going upwind in this video

     
  14. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 1,810
    Likes: 140, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 304
    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member


  15. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
    Posts: 2,493
    Likes: 288, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1082
    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

    In addition to Gossamer Condor, there was MIT's Project Daedalus. There are a ton of books on human flight.

    McCready and Langford in 1998 lecture -
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.