Hovercraft anyone?

Discussion in 'Projects & Proposals' started by stuffdone, May 1, 2013.

  1. stuffdone
    Joined: May 2013
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    Location: NE Florida

    stuffdone Love to Tinker!

    I am starting a new project building a hovercraft. I have some unique ideas to share and would also appreciate any feedback from people who have built and operated their own vehicle.

    I have preliminary ideas and images on my construction projects page ( non commercial ) and appreciate constructive feedback.

    Since I am a web developer and host I decided to build a page for my own projects to keep as much of this under one roof as I can to make it easier to follow multiple projects. I am easily distracted by a new toy and may jump from one to the other at a moment's notice. :idea:

    PaulcKruger.com
     
  2. kach22i
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Michigan

    kach22i Architect

    Paul, the PDF on your website is not showing up, looks like a red "X".

    I own a hovercraft and have done many crazy experiments on it, the laws of physics can be unkind and unforgiving to say the least.

    I suggest that you join the Hoverclub of America, get your newsletter and have access to many helpful documents which have been collected ad posted on the site. Full access is for club members only, I know it sucks but that's the way it currently is.

    http://hoverclubofamerica.org/

    From the events page you can see that we have a race this weekend in SE Michigan, it would be great if you could make it. I will be there, and so will about 30 others.

    http://hoverclubofamerica.org/content.aspx?page_id=2&club_id=831743

    The best way to learn is by doing, but the cheapest way is to learn from the mistakes of others. You can learn a lot just by showing up at an event and asking some stupid questions.

    One thing to remember, weight is the enemy, whatever you do it's got to be as light as possible.

    Cheers, George/kach22i
     
  3. stuffdone
    Joined: May 2013
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    Location: NE Florida

    stuffdone Love to Tinker!

    Update on PDF

    Sorry I added .htaccess file to images directory but forgot to remove the anti-hotlinking function.

    Should work now.

    I will be looking into all those sites for hovercraft but a few at a time especially those that cost money to join. ( I pretty much live on Social Security as the web business is slow these days )

    Wish I could go to this event but it is too far away and I have my 98 year old mother living with me so it is not possible. If they have one in the North half of Florida some time I could do that.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  4. kach22i
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Michigan

    kach22i Architect

    First impressions, you do not want to try and divert-reverse thrust back tough the fan, which is what would happen if you tried to grab more of that middle thrust. I know most of the thrust is generated at the outer edges, but the diagram does not lead me to think you are using even 1/3 of what is available. It would be better to divert thrust around or through your box shell liner for maximum affect, too much back-wash right now is what I see.

    If the major concept you wish to explore is the control/reversing system, then I suggest you modify an existing craft and or design.

    I noticed a link to Universal Hovercraft, do you like them?

    Have you been to this site yet?
    http://www.sevteckits.com/catalog/i...ath=67&zenid=d7b5f900020f82f6ef3624072f82c84d

    UH craft are very efficient and can be fast, the low air cushion height makes for stability and resistance to winds with a low frontal area.

    The Sevtec's are quieter, have greater cushion height/clearance but are slower and really hate headwinds.

    Since you don't seem like a racer, and would be more of a cruiser you may want to check out the Sev's.

    I can provide a lot of research on reversing mechanisms, drop me an e-mail, that is another thing not working on your website and user profile here.
     
  5. stuffdone
    Joined: May 2013
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    stuffdone Love to Tinker!

    If you were able to see the file on my site with description and drawing let me know.

    That shows the idea in detail.


    Short answer, No, my design provides for a passive duct each side of the fan duct for this diverted air stream. Otherwise all it would do is load up the fan and slow the engine !

    [​IMG]

    --
    Edit.

    I have not necessarily formed an opinions about my links. Just posted as a reference source.

    BTW I want to consider finger skirt as it appears it would be better for craft that may spend a lot of time on dry land.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  6. stuffdone
    Joined: May 2013
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    Location: NE Florida

    stuffdone Love to Tinker!

    FYI:

    Engine I have is a 22HP Kohler V-Twin, electric start (90lb dry weight) being salvaged from a broken Hobart welder/generator. Engine in good shape...the generator died. My weight about 230lb before my morning Raisin Bran.
     
  7. kach22i
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Michigan

    kach22i Architect

    Yes I saw it, which is why I commented that you are missing out on 2/3rd of the available reverse thrust. In addition since pressure follows the path of least resistance, once you increase back pressure with diverter activation, most of your thrust will choose to flow past and down the middle.

    Like I said, I have a lot of examples if you decide to make your contact information available.

    Finger skirts do better on land, it's true. However, on land there are lots of things to hit, which is why you will find hovercraft favoring rivers and the like.

    Almost all plan built craft are bag skirt, bags are easier and less time consuming to build. There are of course exceptions, and I can tell you about these too.

    I suggest if you have not done so yet, seek out designs using your HP requirements. You may wish to consider adding a lift fan and engine to expand your selection.

    http://www.sevteckits.com/catalog/i...ath=67&zenid=d7b5f900020f82f6ef3624072f82c84d
    [​IMG]
    You could put a ducted fan on a propeller based craft, but that would take some engineering. And 22 hp on something like an old Scat II (finger skirt and duct) might not lift your weight on water, but could be find on land and or ice.
     
  8. stuffdone
    Joined: May 2013
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    Location: NE Florida

    stuffdone Love to Tinker!

    Response

    Since there is nothing in my image or description to suggest any specific amount of diversion I am not sure how you came to the conclusions you did.

    The image clearly states that this is conceptual and not to scale etc.

    --

    As for rivers and lakes being better I have no doubt. But they are not movable so when I want to play I am left with dry flat ground close to me. I do not want to limit myself to any location where I need a friend to lift the HV into a truck for transportation etc. I want to be able to "fly" out of my yard and play close to home. The design must favor this ability. :)

    I am the only house on the street. Very rural. No one will care as there are ATV's all over the place making noise and clouds of dust as it is.

    Also a separate lift engine is not in my plan for two reasons. Added weight and complexity, and the fact that I specifically want to start this thing from the driver seat with the turn of an ignition key. I don't want to have to rope start a second engine and I don't want to look for a smaller engine with electric start.

    As for contacting me I added email here but there is also a contact on my web site. http://www.paulckruger.com
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  9. kach22i
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Michigan

    kach22i Architect

    Paul, I guess there is not enough done to comment on. Therefore I drew in some of the things I've pointed out and have been trying to talk about.

    Like I've said, the laws of physics can be cruel and unforgiving, you can learn by the mistakes of others or make your own. I've made enough of my own to want to save others some of the heartache. Go it alone if you have to, and good luck.

    Much easier to toss a log or PVC pipe in the water and call it a "boat" or "raft" than to get a untested hovercraft design working.

    The beginnings of your design remind me a little bit of the work a guy (Ron Fishlock) in Canada has done. Same guy also worked on some inflatable hull hovercraft.

    Ron Fishlock
    http://www.decastris.com/hcc/builders/airidetech/airide.htm

    Video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJNo7XgTRog
    [​IMG]

    Plans:
    http://www.theplandepot.com/hovercrafts.html
     

    Attached Files:

  10. stuffdone
    Joined: May 2013
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    Location: NE Florida

    stuffdone Love to Tinker!

    No intention to go it alone. Have not started the project yet.

    You talk about physics...good and well. Just saying "laws of physics" are unforgiving is of no use in design and such slogans don't plug into finding an answer.

    You said you have a lot of experience so tell me about your experience in the ideas I have proposed such as the reverse thrust idea or the adjustable lift duct air scoop.

    I could just purchase and build something someone else already designed and have yet another duplicate of an old idea. Not much fun if you ask me!

    Always open to actual ideas or feedback relative to what I am trying to accomplish. Not interested in duplicating an existing craft without trying my own ideas. Can you point me to a link where someone else has done either/or reverse thrust or adjustable lift diverter?
     
  11. kach22i
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Michigan

    kach22i Architect

    The adjustable diverter is far more common because it's easier to do. Several such thread in the Hoverclub of America forum, but they recently reformatted the forum and it's all archived now - and must be a member to be viewed.

    You might want to try the UK site, but they too have made much of their forum content accessible to members only.

    http://www.hovercraft.org.uk/vbforum.php

    RE: Not much fun if you ask me!

    It is not much fun working hard on something and failing, but it is fun learning. It's been said; we learn from our failures as much as our successes.

    You can click on the link in my signature to see my work on splitters/diverters and the idea that the air is swirling off the blades, therefore making most of the diagrams you see on the topic fairly irrelevant.

    RE: answers

    I guess you better define the problem you are trying to solve before coming up with an answer. In my case curiosity it's self is often the reason.

    The desire to incrementally improve an existing design doesn't excite me as much as just coming up with a different if not better way.

    If you also fall into this camp, you have both my admiration and pity. It is a hard road to travel, better be mentally prepared and financially secure before starting.

    RE: Reverse

    I've mentioned Ron Fishlock already, and should note Chris Fitzgerald's work with reverse buckets at Neoteric. In addition Barry Palmer's braking drape on the Sevtec's should get a footnote as well.

    There are others, Google is your friend. Have fun, I know it's been fun for me all of these years.
     
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  12. tomas
    Joined: Nov 2012
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    Location: California

    tomas Senior Member

    You're being amazingly generous, encouraging, kind and polite to this guy considering that he doesn't say 'please' or 'thank you', and assumes that you're discouraging him from trying new things when you're CLEARLY just trying to save him some time and headaches. He displays the usual attitude that helpful members get time and time again by wanna-be whatever types who don't realize how prejudiced, arrogant and close-minded they're being. On top of that, he continues to ask you for help. You respectfully hint to him to do his own searching on Google but he's too busy taking offense to your supposed negative superior attitude to look at himself objectively. He should change his screen name to "Shamelessly Unappreciative".

    kach22i , I really appreciate you and your efforts, and thanks for helping to make this a great resource for everyone with your contributions and respectful attitude.
     
  13. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Yes me too I am amaze of the Stuffdone attitude. Kach22I you give him a lot of very knowledgeable tips, invite him to join the club, to help him, no thanks from this guy just a very arrogant attitude.
    This Stuffdone guy should try an other forum with his poor attitude.
     
  14. stuffdone
    Joined: May 2013
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    Location: NE Florida

    stuffdone Love to Tinker!

    I have been tinkering from an early age ( I am 67 now ) and to me, trying something new is half the fun. I have always been pretty creative at solving problems using often the simple approach where others have spent a lot of time trying the most complex approach.

    Since you guys seem to have taken a negative attitude I guess I will not assume any more input from this thread.

    Sorry if I don't say "Please" and "Thank you" often enough to satisfy your egos. I belong to a large number of forums for other purposes and no one ever complains if I don't stroke their egos. I always end with a thank you when something is solved.

    All I asked for was feedback on my specific ideas and everyone seemed to insist I abandon what I wanted to take up their ideas which are pretty much what has already been done. My intention is not to "just have a hovercraft" it is to test my own ideas about the design.

    I'm in this to tinker, not to duplicate.
     
    1 person likes this.

  15. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I feel sorry for you after all.
    You had the best input possible, but you are ignoring it.
    To learn from other, to built a solid base, then from that solid base implements your concept and been part of the long chain of the research and development is the best fun you can have, and also a pride and joy to share with other your results.
    You will never have this joy, this feeling, since you will do nothing, just been frustrated that no one will tell you what you want to hear, talk about YOUR EGO.
    Saying "thank you" is part of an exchange of courtesy acknowledging that we receive and appreciate the gift of other. It is a very old concept, which make us part of a society.
    Nothing to do with ego.
     
    1 person likes this.
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