Hounds, Cheek Blocks, etc

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    I had found a previous discussion on these items, but it was titled just plain 'hounds'. I felt it would get more recognition with a new title.


     
  2. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    I would like to explore some of the more modern uses of 'cheek blocks', 'hound blocks' , whatever we should call them. I just really like the idea of wrapping the rigging AROUND the mast tube rather than drilling into the tube and using those swaged fittings etc.

    per this posting,...... Aftmast rigs??? https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/aftmast-rigs.623/page-75#post-811436
    I found a few nice applications on a vessel up in NS

    Just this past weekend I had the occasion to view a beautiful schooner that had been designed by Alden for General George Patton. It was dockside here in Lunenburg NS, and was now named 'When & If'.

    Another thing I found interesting on this vessel was the method utilized to attach the shrouds and intermediates to the mast column. Instead of poking holes in the mast tube, they warped the rigging around the mast column and kept that rigging from sliding down the tube by attaching 'cheek blocks' to the mast.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It harkens back to older days when a lot of square-riggers had their multiple rope/wire shrouds wrapped around their mast columns at their upper locations.
     
  3. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    I'm very interested in this subject for 3 reasons;
    1) I've never been a big fan of many methods used to attach rigging to modern mast, tangs, holes, rivets, bolts, odd-ball kinked swagged fittings, etc, etc.........and particularly with the more modern carbon mast.

    2) Aftmast rig,...I adopted this 'rigging wrapped around the mast tube' concept in a number of spots on this proposed rig, (both diamond stays and lower backstays)

    3) Split and/or Double backstays,...I believe there is a real possibility to make split/double backstays a very viable rigging arrangement with some creative use of some sort of cheek block arrangement.

    Brion Toss had this very negative opinion on double backstays,....
    WHY DOUBLE BACKSTAYS ARE EVIL ,.... Pieces of String Too Short to Save http://www.briontoss.com/education/archive/miscapr99.htm
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  4. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

  5. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Ok, first of all a "cheek block" is a fixed sheaved block normally attached flush to a spar. Sailing Blocks, a Basic Glossary https://www.sail-world.com/news/207852/Sailing-Blocks-a-Basic-Glossary

    Second, what you show in the photo are "bolsters" as described in mmd's quote of John Leather's The Gaff Rig Handbook https://www.amazon.com/Gaff-Rig-Handbook-Techniques-Developments/dp/0937822671

    Finally, the "hounds and cheeks"on old single or made masts were to support the trestle-trees. The "hounds" was specifically the squared part of the mast above the rounding and consequently stood out wider than the top diameter of the mast and flat sided for the "cheeks". The "cheeks" were two brackets of either side of the mast to take the load of the topmast fid down through the trestle-trees and into the lower mast. Even in this case the shrouds go over a hardwood bolster to ease the turn. See the attached figure from China Tea Clippers by George Campbell China Tea Clippers https://books.google.com/books/about/China_Tea_Clippers.html?id=I5MKAAAAMAAJ
    scan0001.png
     
  6. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Are there any 'modern images' of the wrapping of the rigging (shrouds, backstays, etc) around the mast tube as I have suggested as a possibility?

    I would have thought there might have been some attempts when working with carbon mast?

    I realize that this might be a very limited application as most mast have sails (sail tracks/slots) attached to them which would interfere with such an arrangement. (I've been away from direct involvement with the industry for quite a few years, so I may have missed a lot of development of carbon mast).
     
  7. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    While you could use a thumb cleat/chock, the problem with that would be compressive loads transverse to the axis of the spar, this is a weak load direction for most lightweight carbon spars (and stayless masts are a whole different matter). Most of what I see today are metal inserts to carry the loads into the wall without transverse loads.
     
  8. The Q
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    The Q Senior Member

    I've use wrap round stay attachment at the top of the mast of a gaff rig and a Gunter rig quite successfully/
    It probably could be done at the top of a Bermudan rig as well.
    However further down the mast you either have lacing or a track to allow the sail to go up and down. if it's a track all you would be doing is using stand offs for the track with more attachments to the mast than in a conventional situation. For a laced to the mast sail it just wouldn't work.
     

  9. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    I am somewhat familiar with the need to limit twisting forces on carbon mast, particularly as can occur at the masthead caused by transverse loads by the forestay and the head of the mainsail.

    I found this with a google search which looks to be a very interesting study that carbon mast builders might take into consideration,..
    Compressive failure analysis of unidirectional carbon/epoxy composite based on micro-mechanical models - ScienceDirect https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1000936117302248
     
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